Looking for Advice

[rockedworld]

GW,
sorry to say I think Lotus is right. You didn't do anything to deserve that and I don't think it is a bad thing that you stood up for yourself. Also, good job on not taking D to ski lesson. Time to stop the cake eating. As you do more of this, more boundary setting, you will get these reactions. As best you can, be calm but assertive about your boundaries re: how you will let yourself be treated. If you continue to do this, and also do your own 180's and GALing, you will bring her to the point of having to face what she is choosing, and whether that is really what she wants. This will create a crisis for her, which won't be pleasant for either one of you. But it is necessary. Something has to come to a head for her to decide. You can do this! Stay strong, and don't forget you are literally fighting for your family! There is no worthier cause.

[Lotus]

She is not just a walkaway wife, she is a walkaway mother. She is taking her attention away from her daughters and giving it to a man who is thousands of miles away. The girls are not stupid. They may not know where her attention is, but they know it is not with them, and they resent it. That is why you are getting the complaints about taking them to lessons and other things.

[gutwrenching]

Lotus - could be, had the same thoughts. OM2-- not likely, would have to be someone from the past or someone met on the internet...not someone met local. Very well could have had something planned for contact with OM or if I want to be an optimist I could go back to your earlier post and maybe OM is cooling and thus the funk. Don't know but am finally reaching the point where I only worry about what I can control. I decided that I wasn't going to be treated like that for no reason - so I brought it up again and told her she needed to tell me why she so mad, she said she didn't know, so then I told her that I wasn't going to be treated that way just because she was in a bad mood. About 30 minutes or so later, I noticed a concerted effort on her part to be friendlier--she was still mad, I could tell, but she was fighting it. And then after another 45 minutes or so, she actually started being genuinely friendlier. She is civil now, reading a book and shockingly not on the computer.

[gutwrenching]

Just finished reading the 5 love languages. Good book, quick read, should have read it years ago. Most interesting thing that seems to directly conflict with DB is the part on even if your spouse is involved with someone else, continue trying to fill the love tanks. For my W, I would think her primary is touch and secondary words of affirmation. Those are 2 things DB techniques say don't do right now because they will push her further away. Thoughts on all this?

[gutwrenching]

Rocked - good to hear from you again, thanks for the words of encouragement. I think I'm finally figuring out that she's been cake eating too long and I've reached my breaking point on being stepped on. I have a hard time not doing nice things and helping out around the house, so I had to figure out something else to be assertive and set boundaries and I think that means some verbal confrontation. Not giving in on things like this. And then it is also encouraging to see the W back down after getting over the initial anger...

I'm tired of the way things have been going, it is draining, so if doing this right will create the crisis, ok, lets bring on the crisis and work through this. Lets not wait around, our sitch is unique and we have so many obligations where we have to put on the happy couple face, that I won't be able to do the textbook DB. Next weekend we have social functions Fri and Sat night! For the kids, thanks for the reminder, they are still my inspiration!

[Lost Rabbit]

Well what ever she was up to I do think its crunch time now! Rock/Paper/Scissors was a fab way to deal with it and poor W that she got lumbered NOT!

You asked about the 5LL's comparing agaisnt the DB, I go from the point of view that like the kids if she is complying and being nice throw a few in, if she is being stroppy set your boundaries and stick to them. It will only show her that if she is nice life is nice etc.

She is obviously up to no good but she has got to sort herself out as if read mine, Rocked and H4L's thread where we are piecing its still a no no to fix things and its very hard not to we have to keep our hands to ourselves, as they say you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink

Hang in there buddy we are all here for you!

[rockedworld]

I agree with Rabbit. It seems the best approach is almost a "reward the good, discipline the bad" behavior approach - almost like parenting...lol. I found that when H was being "nice" I would make an effort to speak some of his LL and when he was crossing boundaries, I firmly and calmly re-set them. Verbal confrontation is important, as long as it is calm and firm. I am like you, and find it very hard not to "do" all the nice, helpful things. It is just who I am, I do it without even thinking. So, I had to force myself not to, and to speak up about what was not ok. But, it was at that point that the "crisis" finally started to brew and my actions helped push things to the point that h had to make a choice. None of us should be treated this way. We are worth more than that, and our children don't deserve to see that. If you can communicate that, while also keep the road paved smooth to restore the M if she chooses (by being the better option, speaking some of her LL when it is appropriate etc.), you are still DBing.

[gutwrenching]

Rocked/Lost - thanks for the perspective. The only tough spot for me is the fact that touch is her primary and she claims she doesn't want me touchng her. But I can ususally get in a gentle hand on the back or shoulders. I love the child analogy.
And I do so wish my W would read the 5LL book...some real good stuff in there for her also.

Things got back to a relative calm last night. We ordered some takeout, we just grabbed two forks and ate it out of the same container, and although she wasn't overly friendly she wasn't mean and disrespectful rest of the night either.

I really have to agree with you all that the stage seems to be set for a potential crisis time, if not crisis, at least significant turmoil:
- Suspect I will hear something about the Hawai job this week...as much as I would like to pretend it doesn't exist, it still lingers
- W has no excuse to work ridiculous hours consistently, her job just got a lot easier
- W might be dealing with emotions of giving up the extra work that she enjoyed (and probably helped her not deal with things/M/R/etc)
- If she is still in contact with OM, now she will have much more time to do so
- Drastic mixed messages/mood swings this weekend
- We are still pressing ahead with plans for a two or three day/night family ski weekend in two weeks (happens to be valentine weekend). This will be the first night we spent together outside the house in well over a year...the kids will be there (otherwise she'd never agree to it), but still, it will be a change in environment/atmosphere
- We will be spending lot of public time together...social functions both Fri and Sat night...Sat night with kids

W already told me last night that I could back to old routine...those weren't the exact words, but that was the message...routine prior to May of last year. I asked her what she meant by that and her response is she will now have plenty of time on her hands and I can leave early for work and stay late.

I knew this would come up, I was ready. These are some critical weeks for me to demonstrate the changes. I very nicely/calmly said I don't need to change anything. I've been getting everything done that needs to be done, nothing is falling behind at work, things are running smoothly, I don't see me changing things. I appreciate the offer and its nice to know that if I am having a crazy day that I have this option, but I don't think it'll be necessary.

Then I stuck to my word this morning. We did our P90X workout and W asks me if I want to get in the shower first...I knew where she was headed with that. I simply said no, it has been working out real well when you get in the shower first. She did. I then left at the same time I have been, W did not, she hung around a little longer, but she certainly noticed I didn't alter things. One way or another, I will leave work around what has become my new normal time tonight.

[gutwrenching]

Everything pointing to this could be a crazy week, this weekend was not at all normal and so far today, more not normal. Luckily, I really think I am in a place to handle it, especially knowing I can come here and vent to my friends and I have one friend at work I can now talk too (turns out his 1st W was a classic WAW with an A, a lot of similarities to my sitch).

I have no anxiety today, I have no expectations on this week, I am engaged in work, I am at peace and alert despite sleeping poorly last night.

Two things that are already odd: W iniates a TM conversation with me and W is going to the gym at lunch. She hasn't gone to the gym at lunch in probably 9 months or more and she even asked me if I was going to the gym today (I'm not). TM during work is extremely rare since I took the 2x4 from Sandi a few weeks back and quit initiating/pursuing...except about dealing with the kids.

I'm almost chuckling at myself...knowing this could be a wild ride and knowing at some point I'm going to be frustrated or angry or something. Three weeks ago, I couldn't have handled this...now, I have confidence. I realize I'm not where I need to be yet in detaching and galing and 180s, but I get stronger every day.

[sandi2]

Good to hear that you are feeling stronger.

I have wondered about your WAW and her staying late at work almost every day and comes in with her angry mood. Gee, doesn't she get it? She chose to stay late but she is pretending that she's upset b/c she was late?

It is either a pretense or the anger is b/c OM R is not going like she wanted. And....there's the chance of OM2. The EA affect is very addictive. Enough so that if OM1 doesn't contine then she could find a #2. It is the "drug" affect that is desired. But, I hope that is not what is happening. But it's a little hard to believe that she is angry at her own choice of being late!

I believe that a woman needs to be "called out" when she is acting like a b!tch. When she is showing her tail in front of the kids, or when she's taking it out on you......she needs to be called out. That is when you need to be agressive in standing up to her.

There is one thing I've notice most LBH's saying, and that is when they say they speak with a nice/calm voice. I just wanted to mention that a WAW usually needs a "firm" voice. I have told several men that they need to speak in a firm...low or soft voice. You see GW, you are a typical nice guy and to talk nicely may not be what she needs. I personaly think she would respond to you speaking in a firm voice.

I believe she needs to be called out about her neglect on the girls b/c I'm concerned that it will lead to setting really bad "habits" in her. She will rely upon you taking more & more responsibility and she will become less & less involved. About the only way you can "force" her to do that is if you simply refuse to do it. You may not be able to force her to be a good parent, but there are some things you can put the pressure on her to do with the kids.

The difference in a LBH & a LBW is that men can put themselves in a role of acting almost being a parent with the WAW and it can be affective. Especiall where respect is concerned. However, a woman cannot do that with a WAH b/c it just doesn't work when it's reversed. Do you see what I'm saying?

BTW, I have been curious about something. Which of you has the higher rank?