Are regrets when you end a separation normal?

[Onthemountaintop]

If you really, really think about it, just b/c the marriage seems horrible now does not predict that it will be that way in the future. You can not assume that a D would lead to any greater happiness either but just more complications.

Thanks for the detailed response and thoughts. My sitch is that it's always been bad/borderline OK with moments of happiness. Yesterday, W was trying to do a job application and kept skipping steps like reading important directions. I have such a hard time supporting an respecting her in many places and ways.

I did the one sided effort and turned her around quite a bit - enough that I'm sure I could get by. But I can't make her 'think' in ways I can support and respect. I can't give her the same outlook on the world, or in religion. I think in 20 years, I'd either be very distant, very divorced, or very happy. 1/3 just seems like such an unlikely hope.

I wish I was just trying to get her to change her mind and that I felt more for her.

How can I validate her feeligs and let her continue when I have problems understanding her? I have been trying to wait better to hear her out, but whatever I say that is a complaint, she feels is a pure attack.

Do randoms acts of love- hugs, kisses, sweet words, walk into your home with a smile on her face, bring her some of her favorite candies b/c you "thought if would make her happy". Make efforts to show that you enjoy time with her.

When we first reconciled in Jan, I did this and it helped a lot with the fighting. That is where my thread started - I have such a problem connecting with her ideas. For 11 years I've been hoping we'd grow together, but it hasn't happened...not yet, at least.

[Onthemountaintop]

So I went out with my cousin for coffee - from 8 to 3pm at Tim Hortons, not a bar...

I got home and my wife was waiting like a parent waiting for a bad kid. I told her the truth, I thought it was around 11 when I left, not 2:30! I haven't done that for a few years, and even then only rarely.

She felt that this was bad because I have to be home. I skirted the issue, and went to check my email and watch a TV show. She decided to sleep in the kids room.

Normal? Was it unfair/bad to stay out?

[Onthemountaintop]

I, semi-regretfully, re-began our steps toward divorce today.

W and I were still fighting over problems, and she began again with I can’t continue this way type of stuff. Later, I returned more calmly, apologizing for some of my earlier behaviour. I tried to direct her to counselling. She refused after a lot of fighting/arguing. I asked her if she understood that I couldn’t go on without her going to counselling, she said she didn’t care, wouldn’t go.

I, sitting, asked for a divorce again. She began with anger saying that it was now over and we need to move on forever. I told her I hope she reconsidered counselling and trying to love me for who I am, then, I held her and she hugged back and cried. I felt some remorse for what I had done, and still do. We have 3 months to work it out or move on.

We talked for a half an hour about why I did this – that she has said ‘nothings changing’ and ‘there’s not hope so we should divorce’ and other similar messages 7 times in one month, three times of which she clearly asked to get the divorce started. I strongly expressed that I hope she will come to improve her self-esteem so that she can get her needs met (and me mine) without resorting to all or nothing statements, doom and gloom, and anger.

[Onthemountaintop]

W asked me if I am happier, 6 hours after I asked to separate again. She thought I was. I said that I was because I felt hope that she was going to get help and that if we work - I believe we'd have a great forever M.

She said she didn't think so and might leave me with the 5 kids until a D was finalized...

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

[june72]

Wow! Wow, what can I say? I really think you are not getting it here!

I never feel like an expert on this board but I totally feel very comfortable giving you several 2 x4's!!!!

What are you doing?? Did you notice how you are talking about all how what is wrong with her?

Did you get the His needs, her needs book?

Out of emotion you state D again! How heartbroken she is! When she is crying and hugging you- that means she DOES love you.

I don't know if this is a cultural thing or just something I am not getting but... YOU, yes, you need to change!!! There are definitely some things that you should not be doing!

[june72]

So I went out with my cousin for coffee - from 8 to 3pm at Tim Hortons, not a bar...

I got home and my wife was waiting like a parent waiting for a bad kid. I told her the truth, I thought it was around 11 when I left, not 2:30! I haven't done that for a few years, and even then only rarely.

She felt that this was bad because I have to be home. I skirted the issue, and went to check my email and watch a TV show. She decided to sleep in the kids room.

Normal? Was it unfair/bad to stay out?

WTH!!! She is saddled with 5 kids! This is more than a full time job!! And you had coffee for five hours and lost track of time?! Did you let her know you were going out for coffee? Does she ever get time to do enjoyable events for herself?

Then- you, yes, YOU made it worse but not addressing her upset when you came home. Instead you skirted the issue and avoided her. How would this improve anything?

You should have apologized. Told her you know she works so hard taking care of all these kids and want to MAKE IT UP TO HER. Then you ask, how can I make this up for you? You express that you UNDERSTAND (You do understand, right? you were disrespectful to her and self-indulgent).

Then you go do you own thing again- checking your email and watching a tv show- INSTEAD you should have helped her around the house or help with the 5 kids you have. Again- maintaining a house with 5 kids and caring for them is a LOT of work.! Selfish! Do you not understand how much work she does?

I don't know how involved you are with the housework and kids- maybe you do a lot- I have no idea. What I am reading is not so go though.


Actually this entire event could have been avoided if you had made mutual plans with your wife beforehand and then kept track of time. ie. "Wife I am planning on having coffee with my cousin at so-so time. Does that work well for you? Can I pick you something up on the way back? I will be gone for 2 hours." If she has an issue you offer up compromises.


Did you read- "his needs, her needs" yet?

[june72]

I, semi-regretfully, re-began our steps toward divorce today.

Samerah and I were still fighting over problems, and she began again with I can’t continue this way type of stuff. Later, I returned more calmly, apologizing for some of my earlier behaviour. I tried to direct her to counselling. She refused after a lot of fighting/arguing. I asked her if she understood that I couldn’t go on without her going to counselling, she said she didn’t care, wouldn’t go.

I, sitting, asked for a divorce again. She began with anger saying that it was now over and we need to move on forever. I told her I hope she reconsidered counselling and trying to love me for who I am, then, I held her and she hugged back and cried. I felt some remorse for what I had done, and still do. We have 3 months to work it out or move on.

We talked for a half an hour about why I did this – that she has said ‘nothings changing’ and ‘there’s not hope so we should divorce’ and other similar messages 7 times in one month, three times of which she clearly asked to get the divorce started. I strongly expressed that I hope she will come to improve her self-esteem so that she can get her needs met (and me mine) without resorting to all or nothing statements, doom and gloom, and anger.

I can only say one word here - BULLY!!!

WTH!!! You can not threaten D so that she will get counseling. You BOTH need counseling. If there is anything you learn for this site- please take this piece of information to heart and really get it. YOU, yes, YOU need to make changes. YOu BOTH need counseling and marriage counseling.

Read hold onto your NUTS- I am reading it now- got it for my hubby. It is highly recommended here.

Perhaps she does need counseling- you do not state that you will D her if she does not!!! You both need MC- if she is not interested first you still do the work towards improving your marriage. Man up!

[june72]

W asked me if I am happier, 6 hours after I asked to separate again. She thought I was. I said that I was because I felt hope that she was going to get help and that if we work - I believe we'd have a great forever M.

She said she didn't think so and might leave me with the 5 kids until a D was finalized...

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

Well, how else is she supposed to feel - you bully her, tell her she has self-esteem problems and generally disrespect her. Yes, you do. I will repeat it-yes you do. You may not realize it but you are doing so.


Listen, listen, listen- you need to seriously gain some insight here. She is telling you she needs to see some changes from you. Perhaps she is telling you in the wrong way with yelling and screaming. She hasn't learned the tools how to have a more productive conversation yet. You can teach her these things. But first and foremost- you need to learn them yourself!

[june72]

If you really, really think about it, just b/c the marriage seems horrible now does not predict that it will be that way in the future. You can not assume that a D would lead to any greater happiness either but just more complications.

Thanks for the detailed response and thoughts. My sitch is that it's always been bad/borderline OK with moments of happiness. Yesterday, W was trying to do a job application and kept skipping steps like reading important directions. I have such a hard time supporting an respecting her in many places and ways.

Let her handle it. Why do you need to get involved with her job application? She is a grown woman. This could be perceived as overbearing and manipulative.

I did the one sided effort and turned her around quite a bit - enough that I'm sure I could get by. But I can't make her 'think' in ways I can support and respect. I can't give her the same outlook on the world, or in religion. I think in 20 years, I'd either be very distant, very divorced, or very happy. 1/3 just seems like such an unlikely hope.

She is not supposed to "think" exactly as you think. She is entitled to be different from you. You can not predict how you will be 20 years from now- you are giving up WAY to easy. Even if her views of the world or religion are different- this is NOT a justification for D

I wish I was just trying to get her to change her mind and that I felt more for her.

You are not in control of her- you are only in control of you. Get that! If there is one thing that is a mantra on this site. This is it. You only control yourself. Not anyone else. Trying to get her to change her mind is very pointless. Trying to change you would be fruitful. I know you will not understand that now, but the more you read on this site the more you will understand. You would feel more for her if you would try to understand her better and work on her "love bank" (his needs, her needs) and spent quality time with her and make genuine efforts to make her happy. If you do this for a while she will on her free will make genuine efforts to make you happy.

Listen, many people enter MC stating if only my spouse would change. Eventually, you come to understand that this is the wrong way to think about things. It is not about changing the other person but working on improving the relationship. Again, I am not sure if you will get it now as you are reading it but you will, someday.

How can I validate her feeligs and let her continue when I have problems understanding her? I have been trying to wait better to hear her out, but whatever I say that is a complaint, she feels is a pure attack.

Do randoms acts of love- hugs, kisses, sweet words, walk into your home with a smile on her face, bring her some of her favorite candies b/c you "thought if would make her happy". Make efforts to show that you enjoy time with her.

When we first reconciled in Jan, I did this and it helped a lot with the fighting. That is where my thread started - I have such a problem connecting with her ideas. For 11 years I've been hoping we'd grow together, but it hasn't happened...not yet, at least.

Why did you stop? It was working. This is not supposed to be a short term thing. This is the way you are supposed to treat her for the rest of your life. Like she is the most important person to you. Women want to be cherished and loved. They want to feel that they are the most important thing in your life. Give her that and she will give you her soul and heart. This is how you get a woman to love you. By treating her with lots of love and respect- by doing small deeds of kindness. By waking up every morning and thinking- what can I do today that would make my wife happy? By spontaneously telling her you find her beautiful, telling what qualities you like in her. This is the way to live a marriage- you appreciate her and she will follow your lead and reciprocate.

[Onthemountaintop]

Thanks for your candidness, June72. 4x4s are fine, too, if they can make a happy M!

I have no doubt that when I type I will refer to issues I have about her. I'm the almost WAH, not her. I'm trying to get others' views to see where I'm being unfair about her, as well as ideas on what to do.

I've read many books that have helped me see what things I've missed in offering her more. Books cannot make two people love each other when there's NEVER been the marriage type of love before. I don't mean not anymore, I mean never. She's got enough for a platonic relationship. Is that a good thing for anyone FOREVER? In my religion, forever means forever. I need a W that I can look forward to sharing a hereafter with, not “just till death, then finally we part!”

7x she said that she felt there was no hope and we might as well divorce in one month. Remember – I’m the almost WAH, not her. Yet, I’m here. I’m reading and trying to improve.

I wasn’t emotional when I said we’re back on the D trek. I know she’s heartbroken. I am too, but because I can’t make my M work and can’t find enough good in this good woman that I could love her ‘unconditionally’. Before the first D round, she kept her love hidden. If fact, she did that pretty well until we almost finalized our divorce. Now, I can feel that. It still didn’t stop her from saying these things and more:
- “I feel weak now, not like the last time, I wish I had never reconciled with you”
- “I want to leave you with the kids”
- “I want to visit my home country”
- “I’m going to by a $100 pair of shoes” (: !!
- “There’s no hope” (many, many, many times)
- “There’s something wrong with one of us”


June, you’ve seen many other posts. I go out about 2 times a year, and never to get drunk because I don’t drink. She knew I was going out. I WISH she went out. She never has. She won’t hire a babysitter so we can go out, and hasn’t developed her friendships until we began talking D. She’s been very effective, perhaps subconsciously, at keeping me from developing friendships. I’m possibly getting a D, what’s wrong with staying out? I’m not going “dark”…

I know I wasn’t nice, but it was 3am and she was telling me that she had to go to sleep. I thought she was going to. I have ADHD…I am a man…I was born to make mistakes!

You’re right, I need to try to get to her root feelings more often and focus on her more. Good advice which, I’m hoping, during our semi-separation period before a possible D I can do. Will she do that for me? She usually decides how I feel and why. She saw me happy after I came back from the mall (haircut for me and my daughter). She believed, and still believes that I am happy because we are getting a D. I held her arm gently to show my caring and told her that it wasn’t the case, but she still believes it enough that she told me she wants to leave until the D is final.

Selfish? I don’t think so. I help in many ways and at different times. She chose to be a homemaker, she wasn’t forced. She chose to skip birth control and didn’t want withdrawal, either…. 5 kids are a critical mass – they are very self-managing and very loved, too. On top, I’m a teacher and I get 3 months of collective holidays to catch up on my role in the house. I’m not perfect – I really do know that.

I do thank you for your time to share your ideas, June. While I know my response is defensive, I am reading it for what I can get out of it!