Some DB tips may drive you closer to divorce

[knittedscarff]

About six weeks ago, I found this site when searching for divorce support forums. When I posted my story, some people were nice but it was an overwhelmingly bad experience, with mocking and childish responses. Long story short, my husband cheater, it is a dealbreaker for me, I filed for divorce three weeks ago, we have a mediation in 2 weeks to sort out finances related to the house and kids' educations.

Although I found an online message board that had members similar to the situation I was in - people who didn't like the idea of divorce but felt it was the only option after infidelity. But I wanted to post here one more time because there's been a similarity in the stories the divorcing spouses say, much in the same way a wayward spouse has a "script" that they follow. I don't mean this as attack on the DB principles, surely it must be helping people as it seems to be a robust community. But I wanted to post this for people who are on the receiving end of divorce - as in the ones who DON'T want to get divorced. I posted the list that seems to be repeated a lot, and it seemed like my stbx husband was following some of these suggestions, although I don't know if this was the specific site he was using. There seems to be a lot of cross-over from other sites, as there's a theme in how to stop a divorce. I wanted to touch on three major ones.

1. All of the tips about faking how you feel - not crying when you feel like crying, begging, acting like you are having a great time when you are miserable. All of the divorcing spouses I've talked to - this includes those who have done the betraying and were the betrayed talk about how this is such a catalyst in making them push their divorce faster.

It's true. I was married to my husband a long time. I could tell that he was faking his feelings. After all the lying from the infidelity and his affair, he kept saying that he wanted to get together, but he was still lying. That's my point of view. But another person who was the one that had the affair made a good point too, and this might be useful to some.

He said that he had cheated on his wife and was going through a divorce. But one of the reasons that made him file faster and refuse marriage counseling was how his wife would tell him that she wanted him to be happy, no matter what that meant. He said that solidified in his mind that the woman he was leaving had so little respect for herself that she wanted part and not all of him made him see that he was in a marriage with a shadow of person.

2. All the tips on not saying "I love you." If you are the one who is being divorced, don't give in to what you think the other person wants to hear. Meaning, if you still feel love for that person, tell them you love them. You might not get an I Love you in return, but at least you are being truthful with your emotions.

And if anyone has seen the movie Adaptation, there's a great line in there: You are what you love, not what loves you. That's what I decided a long time ago.

All the people that I've talked to agree: you might still love the person you are divorcing, but loving someone does not mean you should be married to them.

3. I don't have personal experience with this, but it's something that several ppl have mentioned. If you play the game of purposely not answering phone calls, emails, texts, whatever to make the other person think you are busy, but you are actually agonizing over them is a problem.

Playing the game of showing them only the happy side of yourself or you are curious about their whereabouts. A lot of of the divorcers (the ones initiating the divorce) talked about this often. In a lot of cases, there was a separation and talk of divorce, and some of these tips (again, not specifically DB but same in thoughts and action) made the divorcer think: Ok, she's happy, or he's not worried about where I am.

But the "new" you that you are trying to show your divorcing spouse is also the fake you. It seems that if you are not honest with yourself and fake it, IF your spouse comes back, you'll most likely lapse into the real you (the one who likes to know where their spouse is).

If your spouse can't handle the person you truly are, if you're faking it to get them back, it will most likely backfire. Everyone on this board is worth being loved for who they truly are...not the image of the person they think their spouse wants them to be.

And one more quick thing...if anything, it is important to realize how valuable you are as a human being. Because my husband cheated on me, it doesn't change who or what I am (except my tax filing status). Nothing important has changed. And just because my husband cheated, he really is a great guy and I hope he finds someone that he doesn't feel the need to lie to. Clearly it wasn't me, and I am extracting myself from that situation.

The reason that people say to get a life and all that is because it's important to know someone else is not at the center of your world. You have to value yourself as an equal in your marriage, so if your spouse is "cake eating" and you don't say immediately it should stop, it says more about what you think about yourself.

Someone mentioned once that a lot of people on this board would love to be in the position I was in, my stbx wanting to make ammends. That is a ridiculous thought. I wanted to shake him and say, we both deserve someone who loves us. I moved quickly on the divorce because there's no reason to linger over what's already been over.

I hope this helps some people. It helped me to read here and see why he was acting the way he did, so it might help others to explain the point of view of the one who is filing for divorce.

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore!
2. No frequent phone calls to him/her.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to him/her through
conversation.....say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, etc.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention. (Remember, you are drawing him/her back with this technique.)
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.)
8. Do not buy gifts. (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together. (That is pursuing.)
10.Do not spy on spouse. (Not good for you and will make
matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make him/her say it too......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act as if you are moving on with your life!
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times!
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do
things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the
conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be scarce or
short on words. If he/she asks what's wrong....just
say "nothing". Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an
argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home!
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!)
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse
happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around, somebody that is attractive and fun.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let him/her trap you into a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how he/she feels (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.)
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give him/her space and time.
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil)
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.
30.Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting
more than ever and are desperate and needy
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what
you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

[TulsaTime]

Would your advice have mattered if your husband taken it, as in he told you his true feelings? Did he tell you his true feelings but you rejected him anyway?

People make bad decisons, and sometimes they are truly sorry for for what they've done. Sometimes they change. There's alot of changed people on this board. People who have woken up. Crises can change your perspective.

There are perfectly valid opposite arguments for every argument you presented. These aren't all lies. They are coping mechanisms, different tactics to SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE TO THE ONE YOU LOVE. FOR YOUR CHILDREN AND YOUR CHILDREN'S CHILDREN.

I don't know you. Your posts seem hard, cold. I do appreciate your perspective though.

[knittedscarff]

I was thinking about what you wrote, and I realize it's why I found another online board. For most of the people here, I think they are still very much wanting to hang onto their marriage, and to that end, these tips could work just as easily as they might not. If it's helping people, that's great.

But if I come across as cold, I think it's because I'm in a different space than a lot of the posters (here). I've gone through the grieving, the losing weight from stress, the yelling, the silent weekends. It was almost two months from the time I found out about the affair to the time I mentally decided that I was going to file for divorce. And I'm not saying that I was perfect either, and to that end, I'm going to individual counseling.

There's no doubt that people have experiences that shake them to the core, and for some, they become closer together. That wasn't the case in my situation. If anything, once I made the choice to file, I felt a true sense of peace. All before, I kept thinking what would we have to do to work it out, but in the deepest, most important parts of my soul, I thought...I cannot be married to a man who cheated on me.

Earlier in Jan, I thought to myself that it might be better to stay together for the kids, but now that we are alternating weekends and time, it doesn't seem such a loss. My kids still have a two parent household, just different houses.

We did good. Two great kids, together a long time. Gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run....

[MrBond]

From what I read about your sitch, I think you already made up your mind before you came on here. I believe it came down to the fact that you couldn't stay with a cheater and that was that.

Nothing wrong just a personal choice. I don't think the advice you got was bad, it was just that you weren't of that mindset of trying to really save your M because it wasn't what you really wanted or believed.

Good luck to you.

[TulsaTime]

Hey,

I didn't mean to sound so judgemental.

The truth is, your sitch strikes very close to home. It is eerily similar. I the cheater, come to my senses (in a big way), wife won't give me another chance.

Was your H truly remorseful for what he did? Do you believe he really loves you? Was there anything he could do that might cause you to pause or reconsider?

[CityGirl]

I guess what is puzzling to me is you seem to want validation and respect for your stance that adultery is a deal breaker. I feel you got that when you posted here a while ago. There is no universal "deal breaker". Each individual has different deal breakers in a marriage or any kind of relationship for that matter.

There are many, many factors to consider when adultery happens and those factors fall on BOTH the WAS and the LBS. I think most of us can agree that people in healthy marriages don't wake up one day and think "gee, I don't have any plans today so I think I will cheat on my spouse". Most of the time there is a very slow, very damaging progression that both spouses are involved in that eventually leads one spouse to the choice of an affair. And yes, adultery is a choice.

If you would have asked me five years ago if adultery was a deal breaker for me I would have vehemently said yes. There simply is no excuse for one person to step outside the bounds of marriage. It is disgusting.

I think many LBS are able to alter their line of thinking (adultery possibly NOT being a deal breaker) as they really learn when led up to the affair.

Fundamental issues in a marriage can be addressed and worked on. Adultery is not a fundamental marriage issue, it is a terrible choice the WAS makes and IMO there is a big difference between the two issues. If you don't agree that is fine. It certainly does not make your stance more "right" or my stance more "wrong".

Honestly, ALL cheaters lie and once they are caught the reverse psychology begins on their part. It is beyond arrogant for the cheating spouse to think the LBS will profess their undying love for them WHILE they continue to cheat and then turn around and say "well, if the LBS would have acted more sad maybe I would have not filed for divorce so fast". Again, IMO that is simply a cheating person putting the onus on another so they don't have to examine their own actions.

Sometimes things can be rebuilt and sometimes they can't. We all have the right to tolerate, explore and see where our comfort level starts and stops. IMO 2 months is moving way too fast to make such a major life decision. If it was right for you though my opinion really doesn't matter. If you are still hurt and angry with your spouse then you are far from indifferent and that alone would make *me* take pause. If you feel okay about things, or as okay as one can feel during a divorce, then you *have* divorce busted as the main goal is to become the healthiest individual you can.

[luvless]

I was thinking about what you wrote, and I realize it's why I found another online board. For most of the people here, I think they are still very much wanting to hang onto their marriage, and to that end, these tips could work just as easily as they might not. If it's helping people, that's great.

But if I come across as cold, I think it's because I'm in a different space than a lot of the posters (here). I've gone through the grieving, the losing weight from stress, the yelling, the silent weekends. It was almost two months from the time I found out about the affair to the time I mentally decided that I was going to file for divorce. And I'm not saying that I was perfect either, and to that end, I'm going to individual counseling.

There's no doubt that people have experiences that shake them to the core, and for some, they become closer together. That wasn't the case in my situation. If anything, once I made the choice to file, I felt a true sense of peace. All before, I kept thinking what would we have to do to work it out, but in the deepest, most important parts of my soul, I thought...I cannot be married to a man who cheated on me.

Earlier in Jan, I thought to myself that it might be better to stay together for the kids, but now that we are alternating weekends and time, it doesn't seem such a loss. My kids still have a two parent household, just different houses.

We did good. Two great kids, together a long time. Gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run....

I really love this - I know where you're coming from - I like your posts. I'm sad to think I'm right behind you - but in a way - your post just helped a really scared me not be so scared anymore.

[knittedscarff]

The truth is, your sitch strikes very close to home. It is eerily similar. I the cheater, come to my senses (in a big way), wife won't give me another chance.

Was your H truly remorseful for what he did? Do you believe he really loves you? Was there anything he could do that might cause you to pause or reconsider?

This was a quote from another person's post, but it is the closest thing I've read in a while that captures what I was feeling when I was making the decision to try to work on the marriage after finding out about the affair or to divorce.

He kept asking what he had to go to get back...it was still all about him. Replace he with she in this, and I wish I had written it.

Originally Posted By: gucci loafer


And you are STILL making this all about what you want. She says she wants out, but YOU want her to come back.

So you are still being the same selfish person she always saw in you. IF she wants out then so be it. LET her go. Stop contacting her. Stop trying to win her back. Anything else is making it all about you again. You are basically tellling her once again.. "I don't care what you want, give me what i want. I want to stay together, I want you back, I want another chance"

She doesn't want that right now. Let her go.

I guess around Thanksgiving, my stbx-H asked a similar question: how sorry do I have to be for us to get back together?

I don't remember what I said at the time, but it finally occurred to me why relationships might falter after an affair: it turns into one terrible bean-counting exercise. I've talked about this with my therapist, but essentially it's like he wanted it to be a numbers game. It almost felt like when I played with my kids when they were toddlers, I love you 100x much, I love you a millions times much, I love you a billion times much, I love you infinity plus one! (giggling since my kids are older now).

Anyway, in my situation, there was line that he could cross, no magic number, no series of "I'm sorries" that would be the correct number.

I knew he was sorry, I knew he was deeply, honestly, and profoundly sorry. It was (and still is) terrible to see him still beating himself up over it. He has remorse, but remorse became less and less of a factor, to the point where remorse was not even a point of consideration at all.

TulsaTime, I don't know what your wife is like, so I can't say if there was anything that my stbx-H could have done to make it work. It just didn't matter after a point.

It's like asking what's the best car to buy, and someone tells you 3:30p.m.

[sandi2]

Are you saying that this list drives a person closer to divorce?

[saffie]

My take on it all is that ULTIMATELY it takes TWO to want to make a M work. One person can only 'try' to save a M perhaps, but it takes two really committed partners to actually make it happen.

I also agree that cake eating is self demeaning. Once I knew about my H's A that was a dealbreaker, however, everyone has their own limits and everyone interprets DB differently.

For a M where the LBS never told their S how they felt or that they loved them, to now do so would be a 180. When they never appeared to care where their S was before, to now pursue them would be a 180. It's all about interpretation and degrees of change and personal belief. There are no hard and fast rules.

We all read sitches on here day in day out where we think someone should perhaps move on......but it's all about doing things when the person involved feels ready. We are interpreting things here through a two D view and from just one person's perspective.....it's very hit and miss. I can remember reading one person's sich and feeling so strongly that they needed to move on; they were hurting so badly and for so long:ending it would have seemed merciful. Low and behold, that person, after months and months of pouring their heart out on here, is back with their SO and trying for a baby. Never say never, and NEVER think we may know more than the person on the other end of the keyboard who is living the sitch.