A Choice

[patpat]

When I started out, I never would have thought that I would feel the way I feel right at this moment. And you are right. I am in a spot that I have not thought that I would be in.

I do not like it. I guess I could 180 my 180's...

As for power; it was never really about that for me. More about what was and is right.

...is that feeling good to you?

NO... it does not. It is tearing me apart.

It would be easier if someone put a bullet thru my head.

I still Love my W more than life itself. All I ever wanted for her was her happiness. I (during what I thought to be a good marriage) worked my arse off for her (and myself) to provide the things neither of us had growing up. I was in a fog of sorts.

I want my W to be happy. She has damaged me. I can not longer be that person for her. What started off as wrong, followed by pain... turned into a game... forcing a harsh reality or awakening...

Neither of us is in a good spot right now. I hate doing this too my W. It actually makes me sick to my stomach. I hate to see her unhappy...

After all, she is all I have ever known.

Today... I wake up. The world is a different place. There is much to see. I must get busy... I do not want to miss anything.

W may be in my future somewhere... but this future would have to be far from home...

Thanks FM... Good luck with your own sitch! I'll check in on you soon.

[patpat]

I think detaching is just what it sounds like... letting go.

Letting go of everything and moving on. Not trying or even thinking about it, which I know is almost impossible. But realizing that we have no control over what our spouses are doing and have choosen to do...

By detaching, we are telling ourselves that we no longer have the desire to feel the pain we have been feeling for so long. It does not mean that we do not love our spouses... moreso, that we love ourselves enough to not let them continue to have control over us.

IMO, the outcome of the M will be whatever it will be. We can try to save it, we do all the things we can think of to do just that, but at some point, we HAVE to think of ourselves. What is good for you hhh, what can you or have you done for yourself... our spouses believe that they are doing for themselves what they need to do for their happiness (though we do not agree). What about you?

Gal'ing is awesome. You are doing this...continue to do so. This is where you find yourself, and if kept up will provide an escape from the thoughts of the M ending.

I agree that when things get closer to the end that it put our sitches front and center, and it is difficult... but hopefully somewhere along the way you can and have realized that you are better than that.... that you have worth and valve. That you do have a life and will be fine.

I found these things. I like them and I like myself. I have been a good H, provided for my F and did not see, nor deserve what has punch me right in the face. It floored me.

It hurt. It hurt like nothing I have ever experienced in my life. All of us here have felt the same pain. Mine is no different then yours and I feel for you. I wish I could be strong for you and feed you the magical words that will make this better for you, but I can not.

All I can say is.... keep Gal'ing. Know that life has something better out there for you and I both.

I will go to your sitch and read up... I do not know how to answer you at the moment... I am not that far along yet (no papers) but I will keep in touch....

Good luck hhh, you are in my prayers...

[flowmom]

I want my W to be happy.

But that's out of your control, of course.

She has damaged me.

Are you feeling like a victim in this situation? I can understand that you must be in enormous pain, but seeing yourself as a victim will only make you feel worse.

I can not longer be that person for her.

And it's a mistake to be a certain kind of person for one's spouse or anyone else. Yet sometimes we wake up and realize that we've been trying to.

What started off as wrong, followed by pain... turned into a game... forcing a harsh reality or awakening...

The "game" part of it disturbs me. It takes two to play a game. Was DBing part of how you participated in the game?

Sometimes when I read in people's threads it sounds like there is game-playing and a lack of authenticity. And that makes sense because sometimes we have to keep our cards close to our chest and not wear our hearts on our sleeves. But there must be a line where DBing crosses into game-playing and I'm curious to know where that line is.

Neither of us is in a good spot right now. I hate doing this too my W. It actually makes me sick to my stomach. I hate to see her unhappy...

I think you need to figure out what you are "doing" to her. If you have been a doormat in the past and you're now acting authentically in accordance with your own values, then you are not "doing" anything to her and her unhappiness is not your responsibility. OTOH, if you are involved in power dynamics and game playing with her, then you are probably not acting authentically in accordance with your own values. And you can choose to stop doing that, for own benefit, because it doesn't feel good to hurt people unnecessarily.

Sorry if I'm making assumptions or off base here. I'm new to DBing and chiming in on other people's situations helps me to wrap my head around DBing and what it looks like in real life.

[patpat]

I want my W to be happy.

But that's out of your control, of course.

I think you have me all wrong. It has never been about control for me. I just want her to be happy and that is all. That's all I've ever wanted for my W. Did you not want that for your H. Had I said "I want to make my W happy"... that is more like something beyond my control.... Not wanting something for someone. I want you to be happy flow... and me wanting you or W to have some happiness has nothing to do with me other than wishing someone else well!

She has damaged me.

Are you feeling like a victim in this situation? I can understand that you must be in enormous pain, but seeing yourself as a victim will only make you feel worse.

I used to feel like the victim in the beginning. I no longer feel this way and have not for some time. I used to be in great pain.... but now, no pain... and I might add lovingly detached. Thank you for your concern, but I actually feel fine... I am OK! But I am damaged. I used to like who I was before, I like who I am now... and yet, I am different, yet still the same. By damaged, I simply meant that it would be hard for me to be the person that I used to be with W. That is if for some reason we were to get back together... She is pursuing and I am running currently.

I can not longer be that person for her.

And it's a mistake to be a certain kind of person for one's spouse or anyone else. Yet sometimes we wake up and realize that we've been trying to.

I do not believe I have ever tried to be anything other than who I am for the W. I believe that I have been and always acted like myself. I am by nature a very caring person. I did and do care for W. I still love her very much and want the best life has to offer for her. I hope she finds these things in her travels... I just meant that I do not believe I can be the same loving and caring person that I once was in regards to W.

What started off as wrong, followed by pain... turned into a game... forcing a harsh reality or awakening...

The "game" part of it disturbs me. It takes two to play a game. Was DBing part of how you participated in the game?

No, DB'ing is no game. I actually take this very seriously. DB'ing seems to be working for me just as it is supposed to. But DB'ing is finding those things that work and doing them. On this board, I have had many explain and tell me the importance of detachment. How, when and why we do it. Dropping the rope etc.... I had a hard time with this, so I acted it out instead of trying to figure it out. This is a game I played by myself. The game was to act... act out the role of the detached H... by becoming the WAS in my mind. I read up and practiced my script and I turn the script around on W. I woke up one morning and W was changing, confused and wanting answers... I had none to offer... I woke up and I was no longer acting... I have become the WAS. The game was to detach without detaching... I did not win

As for a line.... I do not know. I just tried to modify the detachment thingy so that I really would not have too. I did not want to... it kinda just worked out that way.

But to explain.... started off wrong was W leaving for OM...

followed by pain was patpat feeling what all here have felt... the death of the R and all the sh!t that goes with it.

turned into a game was me trying to alter boundaries, detachment and the LRT techniques in an attempt to get the benefit without actually doing it (the right way)

the harsh reality was it worked anyway... I practiced and played until the line I had drawn dissappeared. I did not know if I was coming or going, but it got W's attention. The attention drove me to play harder until I could not stand to look at her. Now, I just want to be as far from her as possible and it is no longer a game...

I appreciate your insight flow... I do. I think I may have went about this the wrong way kinda... but it is what was working for me. I did expect a different outcome though. What W has been doing is wrong and hurts. I've found a way to let it all go. I wish her the best, I do. And it may be me, but she is gonna have to work really hard to prove that and right now.... I am hard to catch.

I am not intentionally trying to hurt W, I am just running and not explaining myself. That is what I think hurts the most... all she has to do is stop pursuing and the pain will go away. Thats her choice!

[patpat]

(((fm)))

I just reread your post to me... I misunderstood what you were originally sayin'....

About being out of my control and being or feeling like the victim... I understand what you are sayin' now...

Ingore my reply...

My thoughts this afternoon... I don't know. I was in a different place...

Truth be told... I am (was) am (still) am (wanting) to hide from...

reality. Maybe reason I am running from W.

I am detached, I'm not detached... who really knows. I tell myself I am.

W tryin', me closing the door. W tryin to talk more, me...not.

D busted, nope. D on hold, yes currently. Why, not sure. Happy about it, I think yes inside. What to do, how to react, not sure.

Do I really know what I am doing, nah.

Back sliding, yup.

Right now, emotional... seems to be the case.

Do I like me right now... couldn't say.

I don't even know what I am thinking right now... and I don't know why.

Been gal'ing... yes, like this was the last day I'd see... doing everything...

Like the movie "Yes Man" Jim Carrey

Crashed

[patpat]

(((S2)))

Saw you on the board... I have been away, but have been thinking of you... my friend.

I would love to talk to you, don't know what to say right now...lost I guess. Thought I was one place, prob still in another.

I hope life and health are going well.... I continue to pray for you...

Lots of love.... Andy (real name)

[TulsaTime]

pp,

I've followed your sitch for the most part. You are somewhat of an inspiration. I think detachment is where we all would like to be, while saving our marriages and families at the same time.

That is one of the paradoxes. How do you detach without detaching (from the M)? That is a fear of mine. To do anything else but detach, leaves suffering and pain. I think it is a reason LBS do finally detach - to stop the pain.

I am glad you are in a place of control. It must feel good after all you've been through. I have to ask, have you lost sight of your original commitment when this all began? Is your reluctance to reconcile fear and/or lack of trust of ever going back to that dark place? That's understandable.

Maybe it is too soon for you to begin to trust again. I hope your wife works hard to prove it to you. I hope you can leave a crack open for her without driving her off. She's hurting now, but remember, the heart can only take the pain for so long before it must detach, for survival.

You have a choice. You made a choice to detach and you can make a choice to reconcile, if you wish. I don't know if there is a right or wrong. Pray and think long and hard about it. May wisdom guide you.

[patpat]

How do you detach without detaching (from the M)?

Aaaaah, the million dollar question...

I do not believe there is an answer to this.... I think it is and always will be a struggle with, confused about area in a failing M that somehow happens (when it happens) on its own.

It will happen sooner than later for some, later than desired for others. I think it really depends on each of our individual pain thresholds. Some can endure more, so hang on longer. They do and don't know why. That is just a guess.

But once you get mad enough... you will start detaching.

I think folks fear detachment because they think it is the beginning of the end of the R. NOT TRUE. Detachment is the beginning of the beginning. It is (for me) the beginning of all that is new in my life, and all that is old, to become new again. Then, while I wait... I GAL... making new friends and experiences to bring back to the M one day. And if not, a new life has begun...

I am glad you are in a place of control. It must feel good after all you've been through.

Lets just say I am sharing the drivers seat. Control is an illusion. Once you think you have it, you don't and you crash and burn... never understanding why...

I am not in a place of control... I am just in a place where I find myself a bit more relaxed and comfortable... comfortable knowing the my W is waking up slowly. I do feel better today than I have in the past, after all that has happened. I still have my moments though... we all do, and always will. I accept this as a normal part of this type of sitch and it does not feel so bad.

I have to ask, have you lost sight of your original commitment when this all began?

No, I have not. I still love my W more than the air I breathe. I do want her back, I do want to reconcile, I do want to grow old with her and live the ever after... but she is not entirely there yet. She must come out of the fog.... I have time. I am detached.... I am Gal'ing.... I am running from W as she pursues..... it is helping her to wake up I think.... I hope this does not back fire on me.... Time will tell.

Currently, W in apartment with OM. Calls me all the time. Put D on hold....misses and loves me but not got rid of OM yet. She wants to start dating, but I have my boundaries in place.... Will not share w/OM etc.... sticking too it and W is slowly coming around (not allowing the cake eating, though she may be getting some crums from time to time)... she is finding the grass not to be greener... but she is not there yet. So I continue to run. I find that the more I run, the less I hurt.

Is your reluctance to reconcile fear and/or lack of trust of ever going back to that dark place?

No, not fear of trust... I believe I can trust her if she comes back and really, I do not have a fear of anything right now.... I just want her to really want to come back... OM to be out of the pic completely. We have talked about this, and she is not completely there. W wants to come home and wants to keep her friend. As afriend, she says... no sex etc.... and she thinks we can handle this.... and we problably could... but WTF... I have went this long, what is the rest of my life.... I have set a boundary, I will stick too it and that is all. I do not want to be friend with OM, will not accept OM as part of my life, and OM is and will need to disappear for W and I to reconcile. W understands and is not compkletely there.... so I wait. She is pursuing, but she sees me running. She knows what she needs to do to get me back. I am just waiting for her to do those things.... and we shall see. Still gonna take some time.... W still fogged up!

I hope your wife works hard to prove it to you. I hope you can leave a crack open for her without driving her off. She's hurting now, but remember, the heart can only take the pain for so long before it must detach, for survival.

You have a choice. You made a choice to detach and you can make a choice to reconcile, if you wish. I don't know if there is a right or wrong. Pray and think long and hard about it. May wisdom guide you.

I hope W does too. She is still my heart!

The door is not cracked, it is still wide open!

I am still trying to care for her heart, but it needs to heal on its own... I will be there for her when the time is right....

I choose to reconcile when she truely is ready..

And I will continue to pray...

Thank you Tulsa... I shall pray for you also... talk to ya soon!

[sandi2]

((Andy)) you made me cry with that last post. To hear the love for your W, it sounded so much like my H. I am the most blessed woman in the world to have a H who can forgive, forget, and love me the way he does. I pray that one day your W will realize what she is doing and see how much you love her.....but most of all, I pray that she will return home and become the person who won your heart. I can't give up hoping that will happen! Some people I tell them if I think they just need to move on, but I can't tell you that PatPat......I just can't tell you to give up.

I don't know why we feel a certin bond that we tend to make with people, but I do feel that with some I meet here on the board. I feel so much in my heart for them and their stitch. Don't know if that comes through my writing or not, but I do.

You are in a "waiting" time frame, it seems, and that must be awful hard. However, you sound so strong and solid. I just wanted you to know that I admire anyone who has been able to do what you have, and I want to encourage you to continue GAL b/c you deserve to do that.

Take care and post when you can. Don't worry about not having anything "new" b/c it's always good to hear from you. I have seen a few places where you've reached out to other newcomers and that's good.

[CountingCrows]

PatPat,

I have to step out of lurk mode for a moment and tell you that your perspective on detachment is a real inspiration. I look forward to being closer to what you describe at some point in my life.

Thanks. Thoughts and prayers in your direction.