What to do when H doesn't contact?

[25yearsmlc]

GF-

Standing and detaching @ the same time are both possible and you can do both. In fact, I think they are usually done together (not always-depends on situation).

If a man leaves b/c his wife had an affair then my advice would be totally diff, obviously. So it's not a one size fits all, okay? But from your sitch it does sound like two things are happening which you have no control over, MLC and depression in your h. So for you it's even more vital that your kids see YOU as getting well and GAL.

What you may really be asking is how can you have faith but also move on in a healthy way? To me, Prayer needs to be about what God wants for YOU and the kids, not aiming it at your h. Of course you can pray that God comforts and heals all your family members, etc. But as for your "petitions" or requests from Him, to me if we make it about the WAS coming back it's more of a manipulation and telling God "this is our list, do it....and if you don't do it God, then I'll be miserable"...and oops, we forget about the WAS's free will.

So make prayer about what you can do, in your life to change and improve. Ask for God to strengthen you for whatever is coming, so you can best handle it and KNOW that He WILL comfort and strengthen you to face it. So if your h chooses not to take his meds or goes off into the wilds with his MLC, you are still going to be alright. There are LBSers who think faith means thinking God will wave a wand and make the WAS come back but we both know if God's will ruled in the sense that no free will existed, you would not be here at all. We'd have no war, etc. Hence my discomfort about praying for your h's heart to be softened. I think it's fine to pray for that okay? But out loud with the kids...will come off badly with your h. Obviously since it did already....gotta NOT do what does NOT work...

So you ask for GOD to guide YOUR actions and give you strength to face whatever may be around the corner. Reassure your children that you will be there for them 100% and that you are FINE, or getting there, and that God DOES help those who ask...in HIS way...

I feel that when we know God is there for us, no matter what, we project an air of inner peace that most people want a part of. Ironically, depressed people usually want to be around happier people b/c they want propping up. It may not be healthy but being depressed is rarely attractive, and it sure isn't with your h. IF, IF he was and still is the man you said he was, then you need to back off big time - and let that guy resurface, without the pressure from you via comments or prayers...OMG don't mention that again. But don't chastize the kids. Let them pray silently after you do a joint generic prayer for "all your loved ones"...make sense? If they tell him what THEY prayed for, it's their call. You won't be responsible b/c what they told him, I am sure felt like pressure and pursuit. He has to have his own inner voice talking to him saying "WTH are you doing!" And not your voice forcing him to defend his choices....let him examine his choices, not defend them...

So, GAL fits all criteria. Can you afford some sessions with a DB coach? I found them MOST helpful and very very specific for various situations. Around where I live, the DB coaches cost the same as c's here and my ins didn't cover either, so, wth? I went with both for awhile, then stuck with DB for about 15 sessions! (I know!)

But hey, it got ME through so much. Eventually we went to Retrovaille which is very helpful IF and WHEN you work the program. In your sitch, seems to me you have to hope that guy you once knew is still in there, and that given time & space, he'll come up for air and when he does, he'll see what he is missing and it won't be a sad self pitying despairing woman, right? No it won't! You'll have kept the road home paved and smooth...how?

By letting him see an upbeat, happy woman with a life, a woman who meets her own needs, and is raising wonderful loving kids who are fun and growing up fast it is HE who is missing out on a great life....what fool would want that? He'll see a woman who offers a lot and is not a taker or someone who drains HIM....as for the kids... I know that is hard and you must ask the DB coach the question about the kids and their dad --b/c on one hand you want him to know they need a dad, which they do, but not a sick sad selfish one in their face-- but at this point, he's so depressed and weird in some ways, & turning his depression into outward anger (When it's often coming from inner anger at oneself) that saying that part out loud, will probably come off as a negative from you. Oh, I MISTAKENLY and PRE DB bought my h a book about "Why a Daughter needs a Dad"....big mistake. He resented the hell out of it and said "I KNOW!!" and if I had "just supported" Him, meaning let him live 300/3000 miles away, all would be well, then all would be well....(#$%Y!!!???!!) (Sigh). Thank God that time passed...

So for now, I'd act as if things are fine at home and he's an idiot for not being there. Discussions about the good times the kids have or how they are doing in school, not all the bad stuff but the good should be emphasized, etc. At some point, true, the reality is he'll have to face the damage HE has done to his R's with the kids. That is life. They'll let him know so don't worry that he's going to be sheltered from it long term. But he's pretty unstable right now so, let time and life hand him that, not you. Isnt' your job anyhow.

I know my h is facing the damage HE did to the r's with our children, esp our d's. It now STILL needs work and he gets impatient. Which sucks b/c hey, HE did it, not them....but (sigh) that is when you have to keep saying "love is a choice" and down the road you can choose that. Don't worry that detachment means you don't love him. UNTRUE.

It means you are focussed on your life, your needs,(& meeting them yourself) your kids, and not him. No focus on what you "lack" but on what you have. As Buddha said (I think),
"the source of most discontent is wanting what we don't have and the source of peace within, is loving what you do have..." In the grand scheme of things our lives are pretty damn great (we are not in Haiti, you are allowed to worship as you please, there is food in the refrigerator and will be tomorrow, no one is shooting at you or recruiting your kids to join a warlord's gang in the jungle - like MOST of the world faces daily) - I think I'm paraphrasing but you take my point. It's an attitude of gratitude and I'm telling you it WORKS and it IS attractive and it helps your kids. You have a lot on your plate but no control over what your h does. Accept that. So, how about this?

(In a book by Marianne WIlliamson-"Return to Love"--kind of new agey, but very helpful in this respect--)

TURN THE R WITH YOUR H, AND ALL YOUR PAIN AND ANGER...OVER TO GOD & HOLY SPIRIT...do it out loud in the shower saying it 100 times a day (I did this and as gimmicky as it sounds, it had power for me, and helped me stay calm and centered when I felt the world as I knew it was crumbling) and doing it in the shower helps b/c this way your kids won't think you are nuts. Yes, do it quietly but somehow hearing yourself doing it; turning it over to Him, relieves you....it lessens the burdens of the day so you can be fully present for your children - who need you now.

it's too heavy for you right now. And who wants the pain and anger to consume you? It will if you try to carry it alone. Be your best, do your best, and leave the results up to God. If your h stays away, becomes a Tibetan monk, joins the Foreign Legion, remarries....God will give you what you need to be alright. LET HIM.... To me, that's faith, standing, and yes detachment, in a sentence or two.
j-

[Goodfight]

25, I can't thank you enough! I'm going to try my best to be a better person. I can't afford DB C, so I'm seeing a C and she knows that I want the M to work. My insurance covers it.

I just need to get out of this depression, it is terrible. Can't eat, sleep, focus etc. Once I get out of this I really believe I can become a better person. I don't cry in front of the kids most of the time but some times it just comes on so hard. They are acting out terrible.

D13 talked to H last night, he left her a message on her cell phone which is broken but she got the message from my phone. And she said "Daddy sounds so sad, so I'm going to call him." So the poor girl calls and tells him what has been going on (all good) and then asks if he could please take her to swim practice and pick her up since I have to work both jobs and he says that he doubts it. No reason why....nothing.

I felt so bad for her, but there is nothing I can do. Back months ago I would have text or called him complaining and bashing him for doing that to her but I just let it go.

How did I do?

Like I mentioned before, I can't thank you enough for helping me out. You made my day today, and I was having a really rough one.

[trytryagain]

i agree, 25. that was a truly insightful and inspirational post. i may print it out and keep it in my purse. thanks for the words of wisdom!

[25yearsmlc]

GF and others,

thanks for the feedback. Here's something another poster just posted on detachment that may further help--

WHAT IS DETACHMENT?.....

Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow people, places or things the freedom to be themselves.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.
* Giving another person "the space" to be herself.
* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with people.
* Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person, place or thing.
* Developing and maintaining of a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between you and those people you have become overly enmeshed or dependent with in order that all of you might be able to develop your own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which you are free to feel your own feelings when you see another person falter and fail and not be led by guilt to feel responsible for their failure or faltering.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing or controlling.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life.
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people you love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and not give in when they come to you to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
* Ability to allow people to be who they "really are" rather than who you "want them to be."
* Ability to avoid being hurt, abused, taken advantage of by people who in the past have been overly dependent or enmeshed with you.
_________________________

Hope this helps.
J-

[Goodfight]

25, it sure did help. Thanks once again! You've been such a great person! How about my question above? Did I do ok as far as DBusting by not contacting H back when he told D13 that he doubted he could take her to practice?

[Goodfight]

I just never in a million years did I think I would hurt like this from a WAS.

[25yearsmlc]

25, I can't thank you enough! I'm going to try my best to be a better person. I can't afford DB C, so I'm seeing a C and she knows that I want the M to work. My insurance covers it.

I just need to get out of this depression, it is terrible. Can't eat, sleep, focus etc. Once I get out of this I really believe I can become a better person. I don't cry in front of the kids most of the time but some times it just comes on so hard. They are acting out terrible.

D13 talked to H last night, he left her a message on her cell phone which is broken but she got the message from my phone. And she said "Daddy sounds so sad, so I'm going to call him." So the poor girl calls and tells him what has been going on (all good) and then asks if he could please take her to swim practice and pick her up since I have to work both jobs and he says that he doubts it. No reason why....nothing.

I felt so bad for her, but there is nothing I can do. Back months ago I would have text or called him complaining and bashing him for doing that to her but I just let it go.

How did I do?

Like I mentioned before, I can't thank you enough for helping me out. You made my day today, and I was having a really rough one.

I think you did well. What were your options, realistically? (Meaning, the idea that saying the exact sentence with the exactly perfect syntax and emphasis, will NOT get him to come back home...okay? So let's lose the idea that ONE remark will save or kill your M....)

Could you have reamed him out? Sure, which might have felt GREAT and probably IS deserved... so that would help of course...NOT[/b]...besides, you have already done that. It made things worse, correct?

Sometimes, things left UNSAID have more power than things uttered ever could.

In my sitch, when H's dreams of a gold rush and his NEED to live the one place I did not want to live, and HAD lived for 3 years already, and blah blah blah--when ALL those things turned out to be almost identical to what I had predicted -back when he'd said I was being 'negatively programmed & irrational", (as opposed to his "rational" beliefs in all the wildly optimistic promises his heroes made), WELL-trust me, the thought of saying "I TOLD YOU THIS WOULD HAPPEN!!" occurred to me daily for months. I held back, miraculously. But one day his father, my fil, was visiting us & blurted out a barrage of critical remarks to h that I might have thought to myself, but would not have uttered. H took it all in and was humbled by it. He said little to nothing that I recall, in response. FIL was not being mean, just tactless. And FIL was factually correct, but my point is, [b]I didn't NEED to say the obvious. Do you? Seriously, your h knows your d is disappointed. He KNOWS he has let her down...again...what's to say? She's the one with the grievance anyhow, not you. At least as far as this incident, okay?

Plus, this way he can imagine what you MIGHT have said, what you COULD have said, but did not. He cannot complain about what you did not say (nor did he see you roll your eyes or sigh heavily with the martyr victimhood robe...RIGHT? Good thing!) So who knows? He may let his guilt go wandering, or he may be grateful you didn't say or do anything to worsen it. Or he may forget the whole thing ever happened and so what if he does? It's not as good as him "waking up" is, but we have to be realistic...

Seems to me you only have 2 options in most interactions, #1, say nothing, #2, say something: and THEN IF you say "something" there are also just two options i.e.,
A) saying something negative or
B), saying something "positive"...if you can pull it off. "Positive?!" Like what???!!

Like thanking him for letting her know ahead of time, so she doesn't get her hopes up, only to have them dashed at the last minute. It must have been hard for him to say. I think MWD says to assume the best if no evidence to the contrary exists--NOT to read into things too much but just not to assume the slimiest crummiest motives all the time, which helps no one but feeds our anger. If I thought the anger would help you, rather than consume you, I'd say go with it. But I know it will 'win' and consume you, if you let it, as I was there, wallowing in my anger and pain, for far too long.....

..YES YES YES--It'd be very difficult to pull off that "saying something positive" option B, I know. NOR Am I saying it's better than your silence was. But I am pretty darn sure option #2 of complaining, would be destructive to all 3 of you.
That much...we know.

So, tell me something. What is happening with your GAL activities? If nothing yet, why not give yourself 30 days to choose something (LIKE WHAT???? --Take an academic class, and OR an "activity class"-acting, or pottery, or astronomy, volunteer, at a battered women's shelter or a seniors center OR a political cause you care about-you meet smart people in your age group who are also good connections for jobs. It does NOT have to be life changing....just new, or old and almost forgotten, but laying new tracks in your brain, b/c where the head goes, the heart will follow....

Look, You did fine by being silent to his behavior. He didn't necessarily do anything "Wrong" -- not to him...but he knows he's not showing up for your d on this day. So you don't need to say a word to him.

Remember, it is HIS loss so you have to project that and believe it, and help your d believe it. IT HURTS TO SEE HER HURT...OMG I KNOW b/c our older d, then 16 said, "I guess he doesn't want to be part of my life..." and I blabbed that "he does but he's confused and blah blah blah" and she said, "No, he's just selfish"...and she was right.

Oh how I ached for her, and I do still feel bad about their R although it is improving. Back then, we all GAL, and held each other up, became pretty happy and then, HE realized he had missed out on so much and still was... He came to miss us far more than we missed him....To his great regret, and ours....

IF you project onto your h your sense of lacking, i.e., that you & D miss him, then the appeal of returning is less. He'll feel you are "takers" instead of "fillers' of need. But now, you will Instead be so upbeat and busy GAL, that he's a fool to miss out on ANY of the interactions he could be having with d....

(Sigh) I know how this hurts....I really do. And it's tough not to cave in & go in circles with the pain. I DID turn it over to God. But sometimes I would stupidly take it back from God, but finally I was so sick & tired of feeling sick & tired, I eventually did truly let it go.

Ironically, If I didn't let go of the anger/pain, then when h came back, we would not have made it. The anger/pain and lack of forgiveness dooms the marriages....I think more m's fail, b/c the WAS MAY want to come back but assumes that the LBSer was so hurt (and the LBSer makes sure the WAS knows how much pain the LBSer is still in) that the LBSer will hold the A or MLC over their heads forever...and often, the WAS is correct. A lot of LBSers want to stay in the role of victim even though the WAS returned...they cannot/will not let it go and feel "owed"...and they do NOT stay married. I wonder in those situations, who's fault is that? Seems as if both and yet, the LBSer will cling to the original problem and forget about how hard they made it for the WAS...or how much they talked about their WAS leaving and how hurt they were, etc. I know I told complete strangers that my h had gone off the deep end...for months I did that. Crazy...victimhood...

So if we don't let go of our pain, the m is doomed anyhow. More so probably. So GAL, moving on, & letting go is necessary even if you Do RECONCILE...in fact, especially if you do. Hence the need for detachment.
It allows you more room to let go of the pain and anger & the GAL helps fill you with new, good emotions and activities.

j-

[Goodfight]

25, once I can get through this depression and having panic attacks I will GAL. See, I have a hard time driving with my panic attacks coming back because of this whole mess. I don't know if you have ever experienced one or not but they are awful! I shake all the way to work and back, and then one hits and look out. H doesn't know I have these back again. I had them after my Dad passed on 8yrs. ago and here I go again. It takes everything I have just to get to work in the morning. I'm like one of those commercials that are on TV. I shake all the time, have no energy, and I'm afraid to drive....especially in the dark.

They changed my antidepressant and last week they increased the dose so I'm hoping this helps. I'm praying this helps. It is a crippling thing let me tell you.

Oh, and to top everything off S19 tells me he is moving out and going to live with GF. So now I'm even worse than before. Even though he is mentally challenged I can't stop him because of his age. And trust me he is in one heck of a mess. It is his first girlfriend, she is 21 and has 2 children already. Plus he is bipolar and hasn't taken his meds in over 8 days.

H and S19 were fighting all of the time before H left. But we didn't know that S19 had anything wrong with him.....just thought it was the lovely teenage stage, well we were wrong. So D13 spent the Sat and part of Sun. with H and told him about S19 moving out. I love her to death but she has a big mouth LOL. So H's response was that he was going to take him off of his health insurance and asked D13 who was going to cut the grass now?

In the past when H would say somethings like that to D13 I would call or text him out of anger because he knows that she is going to tell me what he says. He likes to push my buttons I think. But I didn't say or do anything.

I know I'm rambling here but what a weekend I had. I need to get myself up off the couch on the weekends and start cleaning the house out. Getting rid of stuff and organizing because I haven't been doing much lately at all because of the depression. So I guess that will have to be my GAL for now, because I will probably have to sell the house.

I really don't know how much more I can take. I miss my S19 so much and can't believe he let this girl talk him into it. He told me that he doesn't want to follow rules or anything anymore and he wants to be with her. I love him so much but there is nothing I can do now. So H will see that the rest of us are falling apart and probably won't ever want to come home.

[25yearsmlc]

25, once I can get through this depression and having panic attacks I will GAL....


Oh, and to top everything off S19 tells me he is moving out and going to live with GF. So now I'm even worse than before. Even though he is mentally challenged I can't stop him because of his age. And trust me he is in one heck of a mess. It is his first girlfriend, she is 21 and has 2 children already. Plus he is bipolar and hasn't taken his meds in over 8 days.

So H's response was that he was going to take him off of his health insurance and asked D13 who was going to cut the grass now?

I need to get myself up off the couch on the weekends and start cleaning the house out. Getting rid of stuff and organizing because I haven't been doing much lately at all because of the depression. So I guess that will have to be my GAL for now, because I will probably have to sell the house.

I really don't know how much more I can take. I miss my S19 so much and can't believe he let this girl talk him into it. He told me that he doesn't want to follow rules or anything anymore and he wants to be with her. I love him so much but there is nothing I can do now. So H will see that the rest of us are falling apart and probably won't ever want to come home.

Well Gee Whiz, GF, you hit the nail on the head. You feel like crap, which sucks. No question, it sucks. You need help; & you are getting it. Good for you. Been there, done that. Found that some anti-anxiety meds worked best for me at the time-my father was in hospice and when I was the care giver for him, I needed it to help me sleep and not freak that he'd die on my shift. Sounds wacky now but that is how it was for me then. And the anti-panic attacks pills helped me through that time, plus funeral week. Anyhow, see if those can help you so that you KNOW, if a panic attack comes on, it'll only last 3--45 min b/c that's how long the meds take to kick in. They are faster than anti-depressants but not as long lasting. Just saying that was MY experience. Obviously talk with your doctor. Your fear of a panic attack is almost as bad as the actual episode, sounds like.

But you have to get yourself up, dust yourself off, and GAL. NO, not "after you rid yourself of the depression-then you GAL...THE OPPOSITE
GAL rids yourself of the depression. You can DO something about this in addition to taking meds...only some of this is chemical; some of it is learned behavior. UNlearn it and learn some NEW ones. Don't surrender to this! I don't hear fighting in you; I hear defeat and you know that is not working for you or for getting your h back.


As for 19 y/o son leaving, so what? He doesn't want "rules"? Oh okay. Enjoy the life with your new gf son, b/c guess what? There will be RULES of some sort and you may not like those either...trust me; he won't. He will discover this for himself and you cannot teach him this. It's called a life lesson and life does the teaching. Is the problem that you will lose his labor? I understand that and you may need to hire someone or your h has to do yardwork and the expenses of that will be borne by both. As for removing son from insurance, is this son also your h's? I'm shocked he'd be in such a hurry to drop him b/c unless your son's health problems are costly, your h won't save much money and your son will be out of luck b/c he has a pre-existing med condition. If you took your h to court you could probably fight this or at least have it noted as it reveals much about your h.

But I suspect you are terrified of rocking the boat and you have let your fears dictate your choices. So, is that approach working for you? Or is it bringing about exactly what you fear the most? Moreover, your son has to learn this lesson the hard way like we ALL did. Let him. You cannot help him but by allowing him to discover that which is only discoverable on your own. And don't blame the girl too much. She sounds frightened too. But if anything gets your boy home, it's going to be you on your own two feet; same as your h. Do it for yourself though. Please. You have to. No choice and for that clarity, be grateful.

Think about that. Decide on a long term plan and a shorter one and start doing at least one thing off the plan's implementation list, a day. Feel good about that.

When I had d20, I was in the hospital with pneumonia, feeling sorry for myself for several reasons beyond the scope of this post. Trust me, my life was hard. I saw a full moon out the window and it hit me then that there must have been millions of pregnant women out there.

Women who were not in a hospital, women who did not know if they'd find shelter that night, or food, or if their h's were still alive, or would return to them. They had no idea where their babies would be born, if indoors at all. Some of those women knew family members who had been killed with machetes, or firing squads. They had kids "enlisted" in rebel armies killing other children in competing warlord's armies. They lost children. They had disease. They have to wear coverings over their face or be accompanied by male relatives if they have any left and they are often raped or maimed....They could not worship as they pleased, they had no electricity and no "car problems" b/c they were simply hopeful that the mule they owned would get them to a midwife with a thatched roof over her head....take my point? In the grand scheme of things, worldwide, we are in the top 3% of people. We think our life is hard and we get sad.

But can you imagine a woman in Darfur, with one child of 12, living, b/c the others died of starvation or plague...and can you imagine her saying she's "too depressed to GAL" b/c her h left her....

Nope. It's hard to imagine. It's called perspective. You might consider volunteering somewhere one day a week. Seriously. When we get too grief stricken, we lose our perspective. It is time to regain it. And carry on. And GAL, starting today. Learn to DETACH and that will be a start.

Good luck, I have truly been where you are, and the other side of this, is much lighter, much brighter and much better. Get through it honey. You just have to get through it. YOU Determine the timing, don't "wait for 'IT' to happen"....DO IT.This ain't a dress rehearsal, this is the play of your life. How would you like the next act to go? Be the director of your life's play; don't let some idiot or any other person determine the epilogue for you. It's yours to claim and author.
(( hugs ))
J-

[Goodfight]

S19 is not my H's son so he was doing me a favor by keeping him on his insurance. As far as the yard work and stuff H would never (I don't think) help. And he cries he is broke all of the time to our D13, so he wouldn't help pay for anyone to do it either.

Everything that H said was said to D13, H doesn't call or anything for me. He goes through D13 which her C said is NO good. This was just yesterday. But there is nothing I can do about it. I tried time and time again to get him not to get her in the middle of things but he does it anyway.

As far as GAL you are right, the meds won't do it by themselves. I have C today and I am hoping it will help some. Last night I took D13 to swim practice and on the way home I had a terrible panic attack. So when it was time to pick her up I was freaking out. Here the neighbor happened to call to check on me and she offered for her H to go pick up D13. So I let him. I couldn't get myself together to go get her. I have a hard time seeing at night to begin with so it makes the panic attacks worse.

Last week when I worked my second job at night I had a girl that lives close to me follow me home. I can't keep doing that because even though my schedule stays the same hers doesn't. I even had panic attacks with her following me. I am on xanax and take it before I have to go somewhere, but at night I'm so much worse. I have suffered with these attacks for over 20 yrs. but they were NO where near what they are when something bad happens to me in my life.

Like when I was the caretaker of my father before he passed I was a mess then too. And here I go again! I was always use to the fact I could always call H and he would talk to me until I got home but now that is gone. I was dependent as far as my panic attacks go with H.

I don't want to give into this so that's why I'm going to C and have been since H walked out.