I have been lurking around for a while and I finally today decided to post my sitch and see what advice there is. I know I have many options, but I want to make sure I don't act out of anger.
Here goes:
I'm 36, my wife is 40. We have been married for 15 years and have 3 sons 13, 9, and 7.
The background: I come from an upper middle class family. My father is a 3rd generation doctor, and on both sides of the family my aunts and uncles have Md's and PhD's. Both my sisters and I have advanced degrees as well. My wife comes from a blue collar family where most of her family members have not finished college.
My wife and I met in college and married (to the many protestations of my mother) just before I started graduate school. My mother was so against the marriage that when they attended the ceremony, they came in at the last minute, sat in the back, and left immediately afterward.
During the years, my wife and my mother have had several arguments (fights really) to the point where at one time I emailed my mother and told her that if she wanted to have a relationship with her grandchildren, she needed to make things work with my wife.
We got pregnant at the beginning of my second year of graduate school so instead of going on to get a PhD; I finished my masters degrees, found a good job at a hospital, bought a house and started a family.
After about 2 years, I took another job with a government agency. I did not like it, but it was stable and had great benefits. About 9 months after that I took a job that paid significantly less with a start-up company that had great potential for growth and advancement. Of course, it did not grow like we were expecting and the guy who ran the company was abusive and demanding. The 5 years I put in at that company took a tool on our marriage because she was never keen on me taking the job in the first place. She wanted me to quit several times, but I stayed because there were several periods of growth in which I thought the real money was around the corner, and because my job title and responsibilities were outside my area of education and if I were to go back to my field, I would have to start at the bottom again and work my way back up.
I became the middle of a power play between the president and the board of directors and got fed up and quit. I floundered for a few months and through networking landed another position with a start-up. Things went extremely well: we bought a new house in the “best school district”, were saving money and thought we were on our way until the principal partner walked off with all the money and left me and another partner holding the bag.
I went into crisis mode and got a job working nights at a local convenience store, got a part time consulting job, and worked for one of my buddy's who owned a lawn care business. I did this for a year working 80 hours a week to make ends meet. Money was tight, but we were making it.
It was somewhere towards the end of that year that she told me that she did not think she could get over all the things that had happened in our marriage and that she did not want to be married anymore. I did some digging and found out she was having an EA with a guy she had met on MySpace. I never told her that I knew about the other guy, but I did pursue too much. After a few weeks, I wised up and backed off, and after about 3-4 months she came back around. On several occasions I tried to get her to talk about what was going on during that time and she would just blow it off and say that she was just in a bad place and that she was good now.
By this point I had begun working in my father's private practice (he lives about 1000 miles away from us and I was flying back and forth every week). We finally decided that we would move near my parents (not too close, because my mother and my wife don't really speak) and I would work full time with my father. Then the economy tanked and so I was stuck working in one place and flying back every week or two to see the family, while we worked to sell the house. Again, things seemed fine and she had given no indication that there was a problem. We talked every day on the phone and when I flew home it was like I had never left. Previous to Thanksgiving, I noticed that the conversations on the phone were a little flat, but when I came to visit, things were fine. We got into an argument while I was there over me being too involved during one of our son's wrestling matches, but when I left I thought we had ironed it out.
Within a day or so of me arriving back to work, she hits me with ILYBNILWY and told me that over the past year she has been faking it and that she can't any more. She then said all the typical WAW stuff about it being her and that I am a great husband and father, but that she is not happy and just has no romantic feelings towards me. I did not freak out, but told her I was willing to give her some space however this time she said that as far as she was concerned, we were separated.
I stayed where I work between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and when I came home for Christmas we slept in the same bed, but she all but put a pillow between us. She has not told any friends, and has not told the kids, so she is acting like nothing is wrong and putting up a great front for everyone.
I did some more digging and found some questionable texts in her phone, and a number with just initials for a name. I looked at the cellphone bill and she has been calling and texting that number like no body's business and had a few at 2 or 3am during the time I was home. I believe she is having another EA, and because I am gone most of the time there is nothing to keep it from being a PA.
I have read DB and DR and I have been distancing myself. She at one point a week or two ago told me that she was rethinking things and had been talking to a friend and was realizing that the “feelings” don't always have to be there, and stuff like that. I was encouraged and was thinking I could make it.
Then today she tells me that she doesn't want me to come home on the date she had originally asked if I could. She gave me an excuse that since she is playing at a coffee shop that night she did not want the hassle of having to pick me up at the airport an hour or two before her show. I told her that I had thought about that and was planning to come in at 10:30am. She was quiet, and then asked if I would miss too many clients and I told her no. She then said “oh, that is not what I was thinking” and then said she would have to think about it.
I am totally pissed and trying not to react angrily. I have not been home since Christmas and now she is telling me she does not want me to come home after a month?????
Obviously there is a lot more history (15years worth) and I gave more factual than relationship information but that is the overview. We get along well, we are nice to each other. I have a strong personality and know that in the beginning of our relationship she felt like I ran over her, but over the past several years I have really made an effort to make sure we are on the same page by asking her opinion before I tell her mine, and going along with what she wants/thinks even if I don't totally agree. I am the "cool, calm, rational" one and she is the more "emotionally demonstrative". However, I always told her how much I loved and appreciated her. I am not naturally argumentative and she is conflict avoid-ant until she blows up. I could go on and on, but will shut up now.
I would love to hear some input from other people who can be objective about this issue in particular and about my sitch in general.
Me 36 W 40 S 13, 9, 7 ILYBNILWY 2-08 Discovered EA 3-08 Reconciled 7-08 She says she's been faking it 11-09 She wants to separate 12-09
I did some more digging and found some questionable texts in her phone, and a number with just initials for a name. I looked at the cellphone bill and she has been calling and texting that number like no body's business and had a few at 2 or 3am during the time I was home. I believe she is having another EA, and because I am gone most of the time there is nothing to keep it from being a PA.
I read in a book a concept, which seems to make sense and might help: When you marry, you agree that you’ll be monogamous if the other person fills your sex/relationship needs. So if you are married, you need to fill those needs to stay married.
My W and I separated for a while, and when we began to reconcile and having sex, I felt much more connected and much more patient with her. As a doctor, I’m sure you know all too well what hormones do…
I’m sure it will be a hard road for you and her to get to a point where life gets to normal, but consider this…if you want your wife and family to stay together, living in a modest home might be much more important together. Not just the for the physical things, but for the feeling of being protected/together/comforted for your wife. If you have time on the plane, try reading “Improve your marriage without talking about it” by Patricia Love after reading the DB books.
There might be many much bigger issues going on. If your anger leads her to a PA, is there any going back? Some stains are permanent, even if they make things better. It sounds like she wants you home, but for good or for never. Moving near your mom who disrespected her during your marriage sounds simple to me; does it for her?
Good luck! Prayer helps a lot, but changes come from us, not from deferring to destiny.
All of your analyzing and all of your bringing up the past and what could have caused this or what did cause this is fine, but it really has nothing to do with reality...
The reality is that your wife has a romantic interest in someone else right now...
So all of your other thoughts, ideas and conclusions mean nothing..
It is simple. She thinks she likes someone else right now. When a woman likes a man, she then makes excuses and can come up with a thousand reasons why the man she married or the man she WAS with messed up.
This is just another textbook affair....
The affair has to stop before you have a chance. I would find out who this guy is and see if exposing might be the way to go. If he is married you have a chance to help end their affair.
As a doctor, you should understand that you first must have a correct diagnosis of the illness before you can tell the patient what the next step is..
Same thing here. You have misdiagnosed your problem. The correct diagnosis is that there is an affair going on. the wrong diagnosis is that she left because she didn't get along with your mother or any one of a number of other reasons you are grasping for.
I totally get what you are saying. The background info does tend to cloud the issue that this is a textbook affair. Because I know she always responds negatively to pressure, I am not sure if exposeing the whole thing would drive her further away or not. She did finally admit to "having feelings" for someone else (see below). Believe me, I have thought about paying the money to find out who he is and then just showing up on his doorstep to blow the whole thing up. I just don't know if that is the best move.
Steve, I almost planned to do exactly that. However things have changed a bit (or maybe not at all).
Mountain, Our house has been on the market for several months and we are waiting for an offer. At this point we may take the 1st one that comes along. Nothing in our neighborhood has sold in the past 4-5 months and our house is in the middle pricing, with the second largest square footage. If I could have continued to pay the mortgage while staying home I would have, but it was either this or foreclosure.
Me 36 W 40 S 13, 9, 7 ILYBNILWY 2-08 Discovered EA 3-08 Reconciled 7-08 She says she's been faking it 11-09 She wants to separate 12-09
Last Friday I called and after talking for a while asked her if she had thought about me coming home anymore she said she really did not want me to. I said "OK, I just needed to know because to get the prices we talked about, I need to book the flight before midnight".
I then told her that I wanted to respect her "space" while she decided what she wanted in the marriage, but told her that in the next few weeks I would be coming home to see the boys. I told her that if necessary I would book a hotel or spend the night on a buddy's couch and then spend the day with the boys, but that even if she did not want me home I was still going to be coming back to spend time with our children.
That turned into a R talk for about 45min. Towards the end I sensed she was ready to get off the phone so I said something "well we aren't going to solve this in one day so we don't have to talk about it any more. I can't wait forever, but I am still committed to giving you time to decide and not push you to make a decision now. The boys should be home from school soon so have a good time with them and I will talk to you later."
She called back 15min later and said "well I don't like how you told me you can't wait forever so if you aren't going to be patient with me why don't we just divorce." We went back and forth debating whether or not I gave her an ultimatum and then I finally said something like "Listen, I meant what I said when I told you that I would give you time and not pressure you. Obviously I am not going to wait for the rest of my life to make a decision. If you are convinced that you can not be happy married to me and are sure that you can't love me then do what you have to do. My life will suck for a while then I will get over it and move on. However, if you don't know what you are doing, then don't make a snap decision just because you don't like the way I said something."
From there we spoke for a while and in the process she finally offered up that she "had feelings" for someone else. I told her "I figured you did, because that is what happens." She was surprised and I used the opportunity to say that I thought she had feelings for a guy she had been speaking to on line when she decided that she did not love me last year. She was quiet and then said that she had, but it was innocent. I said nothing and she then said "well, we flirted mostly.......you know, he was sarcastic and would say things sometimes, but I would shut it down.......well maybe I responded in kind a bit.......I might have been inappropriate with him one time on the phone, but that's it."
Then she asked why I did not say anything about it then. I told her that when she decided to try to make things work, I was willing to forget it so why bring it up. She said oh. Shortly after that, she got off the phone.
We did not talk much on Sat because I was working, but then we had a long conversation about various problems we experienced in the past. I admitted a bunch of regrets and a bunch of "if I had known then what I know now" kind of stuff. It seemed good.
Then on Monday she told me that if I still wanted to, I should come home on the dates we had discussed. However she has seemed a little distant since then. Nothing I can put my finger on, but just a little weird.
My questions are:
How much longer should I allow the cake eating to go on?
When I go home, should I just be "perfect dad" and not bring up any R stuff?
How long should I wait before I bring up the OM again (if at all)?
My inclination is to be "perfect dad" on this visit, then be pleasant on the phone for the next several weeks after that before I visit again. She says I am the perfect husband but she is not in love with me like that any more. I know that is WAW BS, but how long do I wait before I begin to force the issue?
I would love to have the input of any WAS's on this. How long did you need with no pressure for the fog to lift?
Me 36 W 40 S 13, 9, 7 ILYBNILWY 2-08 Discovered EA 3-08 Reconciled 7-08 She says she's been faking it 11-09 She wants to separate 12-09
I don't know. Let's say you had a plate with a cold hamburger on it. And you don't like cold hamburger. How long would you need to wait before you wanted to eat the cold hamburger?
How much longer should I allow the cake eating to go on?
Not ONE second longer.. NONE.. Zilch... Nada...
What you do is LET her have him and YOU show her that you don't share. It isn't an option. Since she wants him, then she can have him. This is done matter of factly, firmly and confidently...
Quote:
When I go home, should I just be "perfect dad" and not bring up any R stuff?
YES. YOu do bring up relationship stuff. HERE is how it is done....
"I have been doing some thinking AND here is what I HAVE DECIDED. I have decided that since you want out of this relationship and are not sure what you want, that YOU should move out and find a place of your own. I think you should be out of here within two weeks. I have realized that I have been pursuing you and chasing you and have not been listening to you when you told me that you didn't love me the way a wife should. I have decided I will not live that way and don't want to be with a woman who doesn't WANT to be with me"....
THAT is it.. You then stick by that theme... You let HER come to you . If she doesn't then you continue to move forward with her moving out, the divorce and you taking care of YOU.
You don't need to bring up the other man other than to push her TOWARD him as you back off and show her emotional strength.
YOu other option is to do what most all of the other guys on this site do. They hang in there for months on end, which turns into years.. END RESULT... DIVORCE and wasted time..
Women do NOT repsond to men who chase them when they are having an affair. They lose respect for you. She will respect you more if you are willing to put everything on the line to show her you won't allow her to have two men fighting for her..
This is the way that I have seen work the best of any. STrong, confident, matter of fact, reslolved...
In your interactions with her, just be nice. Don't tell her you love her. Make the conversations short and to the point and let her WONDER what you are thinking....
Then she asked why I did not say anything about it then. I told her that when she decided to try to make things work, I was willing to forget it so why bring it up. She said oh. Shortly after that, she got off the phone.
Let me tell you what she really meant by that, Ozy:
