Is it me? Or is it really everyone else? lol.

[25yearsmlc]

wow, well said Antlers. And Jon, we are all glad for you. But no, I don't see your sitch as being all that similar to K4's or his behavior. I've been here over a year now and we're still saying mostly, the same things. There IS a cycle that he goes thru and he does not do the "work" part of this. It's hard for him to get through his days but that does not mean he's working on himself.

I'm all for faith, and I know without mine, I would not have been able to last in my sitch. But I DID things that were different and uncomfortable for me, which made a difference and I sense I need to do more as well. So I'm not "done" by any means and neither is my h....but if K4 were to somehow be given another chance with his wife TODAY, I believe he'd be here again, within 6 months. He needs to do as Drew suggested. Are you really saying you did nothing to change yourself and your w returned? And it was all just about being her friend? If so, I assume it was some sort of 180 for you, which means CHANGE....or am I missing something?

My db coach DID advise me to "listen like a lover" to h when he called (if the discussions were not about an OW or his leaving). I was to try hard to "empathize" and I did learn a lot about his choices. I admit, I still felt he was being selfish but I could see why he did not realize it. (Yes, he did later when we went to Retrovaille but that was not my goal in going, obviously. ANd if he never realized it was selfish but didn't do it again, that would have sufficed for me. I don't believe we have to agree on our pasts, but we do have to agree on what will be done and accepted, going forward together. Somehow we each have to feel "safe" with the other though trust has been broken and that takes growth on each side.) I was also told to "applaud loudly for the 1% positive he might do", and it was NOT easy b/c of the things he was not doing. But it made a diff, as did remaining calm and no longer telling h what I wanted or needed but taking care of that myself. That had felt like a burden to h and it was.

So, I went about making my kids and my own needs, MY priority and took care of them. Did not ask for anything from h but what was mandatory for us. Bottom line was that my life, with our kids, became so much better even without h, that h realized he was missing out on so much. He wanted back in. He did some work to get there. If I had continued making it all about what I needed and what I wanted, it would not have worked, and btw, how is that appealing? It's not.

And it IS what K4 does here at least. Talks routinely about what he wants and needs and has done this for a good year. ALL about HIS needs and wants. It does seem narcissistic even if couched in religious terms that are blatantly self serving. The cycle continues. And he's not any happier.

His wife did have reasons for leaving. I don't like saying that, but it's true. You can argue all you want that she should not have resorted to leaving (there were warnings galore) but hey, she did it anyhow so that, is that. But the "needing" and the "Wanting" as if they are reasons in and of themselves, is not realistically going to win her back, obviously. And it's not that healthy either.

My H could die or leave again and I'd be sad but I would KNOW in a minute, thanks to the inner work I have done, that someday I would be fine. I would NOT despair endlessly. However in k4's world, he'd have to date again ASAP to get a new woman in his life or he'd be exactly as he is now, lonely and ovewhelmed. HIs focus would be on external validations... I can't tell him that's a great way to live. I don't believe it is.
Just my take on it. But I'm happy for you and your sitch. I just don't see that many similarities beyond the WAW issue.
j-