Just want my H back

[LookingFrAnswers]

Hi H,
Wouldn't it be possible to nicely discuss the possibility of him contributing $$ in your settlement? If you can approach (probably rehearse it) in a non-threatening/non demanding way, could this be a possibility?

You should not feel used. But I know how you feel. I am similarly slow to separate our joint finances but realizing that I am helping subsidize his "new" life keeps me from agreeing to a 50/50 split on our credit card debt. But like you, I still dont' want this to get nasty. My DB coach always advocated a "remain civil" approach, I think from what you've said that is what you want to do.

Reading your post, it seems like you are defining boundaries for yourself as you go forward. Have you thought about how much $$ you'd ask him for if you ask? Sometimes seeing the numbers in black & white will give you the push to pursue, or maybe you'll decide the amt. not worth it. Then, I don't know if you've consulted a L yet, but take the agrmt. to the L & ask about having that added to it. Tell H then you'll sign it,(if you are ready to sign).

Coach has a good thread on boundaries. Maybe you can directly ask him a good way to approach this. Don't ignore your feelings of getting a raw deal. You shouldn't have to get nasty in order to get what is rightfully yours.

Wishing you a good week, H! Peace and hugs to you,
LFA

[25yearsmlc]

h, are you saying you have NOT contacted a L yet? If not, do so immediately. You have assets at stake and I refuse to listen to idiots talk about the cost of seeing a L when all you need to do MAYBE, is listen to one for an hour or two and pay them for their words. If you don't want to go that route, at least you'll be armed with information. I have seen SO MANY people try to save money by nickel and diming on L's only to end up fighting much more than they would have if they had at least consulted with one. L's are also great for making boundaries. (Yes it helps more with kids but might apply in your sitch too)

In California it's fairly predictable as it relates to property - but hiring one for consultation is mandatory in that you KNOW what is likely and whether it's worth fighting. I found it empowering. Ask for stats, cases gone to trial etc. But other states are less predictable and for me, that means even more the reason to CONSULT a L. You do NOT have to hire them after the consultation, nor do you have to sue or sign or anything but if you sign anything without a L, you will regret it. Your doubts will haunt you and that will corrupt your R with your x H AND he won't respect you more for signing without a L...honestly, he won't.

So see a L and ask the range of worst case scenarios, versus likely and best case, etc. Pay for a few hours of their time. Don't tell your h if you don't want to. He does NOT need to know at this point.

He may fear you want restitution for enabling him to earn so much more and guess what? That IS an argument you have in some states....look into it. So what if it motivates him to be KINDER to you, not meaner? Why would you having some power over your assets make him less kind? If anything, he'll feign cooperation to get along and save money and poss have MORE contact with you...and who knows? He may stop feigning and start seeing you as more of a catch AND let him get in touch with the loss of you, in all it's dimensions.

what have you got to lose by consulting a L? Don't be penny wise and pound foolish and ...NEVER ever ever think that your man will respect or love you more, OR come back to you, b/c you did NOT consult a L....

The fear of losing so much wealth DID scare my h...so what? As far as I am concerned, losing lots of money was even more motivation for my h to make it work with us. I mean that. I don't like it, but I know it's true...
With that work, came other reasons for making things work. Frankly, I don't care what gets them motivated...as long as it grows into the right reasons.

j-

[hhh]

25,
I did actually speak at length (interviewed) 2 L's and a mediator last fall. One was ridiculously expensive and had the 'go get em' mentality, the other i jived with a lot more.. so i do have these 2 contacts and one that I thought about using. The issues is, we have ZERO shared assets (everything is separate), no house no kids, both make very good salaries so i don't know what i'd even win. Yes i shelled out some money for his tuition but not gobs, and everything i've made income-wise during our M is in my name. So my fear is more of a tit-for-tat type thing... one of my best friends' dads is a divorce L (in CA, and I live in MA still) and he suggested best to walk away without H coming after me for anything. But it's really the principle and bitter factor that i've worked so hard for so long and he goes to harvard and now makes $$ and my earning will plateau and plus, i'm at the stage where i don't want to work 80 hrs a wk...I want to have a H and a family and be more of the 'mom' role...I guess. But i do feel like he gets off scott free...

I was just having an angry moment in my hotel room before I read your email...it was more empowering...like who is this a-hole, he left me when i wasn;t working, actually (I quit my job to be home w him more), and HE asked me to pay him back for health insurance and necessities...meanwhile he's spending thousands traveling and boondogle trips (when he never paid for vacations in our M...I always did!) What kind of man is that?? And he says I emasculated him! I talked to an old friend this weekend who has known both of us since we were together and she said he clearly blames you for his own not-feeling-like-a-man, or whatever...

I moved in w him years ago, I had no job, i always paid my share and then some, and he leaves me after I've funded part of his tuition, spends $ irresponsibly and friviously, then calls me a selfish bit--. Argh. Sorry, an angry moment came.

But I still love this man and I understand some very hurtful below the belt comments I made to him over the years. I understand why he never felt adequate...but as my old college friends said 'he never felt good enough'... and maybe we got set into these dynamics and ways.

Sad stuff...but yes I should stand up to him. I just dont want to spend x in legal fees to get x plus pennies back...it's not a huge amount in the scheme of things. But i would love to go back to school and not work so hard right now.. (yes i could be major lifestyle change).

And talk about boundardies...we emailed this weekend about getting dinner one night this week, and i told him when i was free and then Radio Silence...he has done this many times. Do I text him tomorrow about what night works for him? I do want to talk to him b/c frankly i we've gotta talk about doing our taxes and i might very well be able to get tuition $ back outside of having to go to lawyers (last yr he told me that he would pay me back, he's not that much of a shmuck).

I want to seem strong and stand-up to him rightfully so, but I also want to be friendly and loving...is that weird? I want to act out of love still, not fear. I'm tired of always feeling like I'm the bad guy.

How should I proceed in getting together w him? I move back to CA - all the way across county - on March 10. we have very limited contact together until then.

And part of this self-blame and wanting hin desperately again lately is I know..driven out of fear. I am 33 and will I find love again and have children which I so want. Will I let go of this bitterness and heal? And will - based on any last posts - there be any chance of reconcil w H? I think it's very unlikely...but what if anything can i do to increase the odds, or move on.

You guys are wonderful. We are going through a shared pain and I do hope we all become stronger for it.
Peace and Hugs,
hhh

[pearlharbr]

but what if anything can i do to increase the odds, or move on.

You move on. It fits both criteria.

Do not text/email/call him about getting dinner this week. Let it go. Wait another week or so then contact him about discussing taxes. That way it's not pursuing on a R level, it's simply a business meeting. And it shows that you're not sitting around waiting for his response to make plans. Don't do that! Make some other weekend plans now so if he does get in touch it will have to work around your schedule.

[hhh]

That makes sense Pearl. It's just frustrating b/c I am around during the wk this week (we are both gone this weekend), and not sure of my travel schedule yet next. Whenever I do re-contact, even if next wk, should I say I have some things to discuss (vs. just friendly dinner)? Does that make it seem more like I am standing my ground? I would like to have a decent civil dinner too...could do both. But yes, I'm annoyed b/c he's done this to me MAny times during our separation, saying 'what's your schedule like' and then never contacts me again...so I feel like if you say dinner would work one night, then FOLLOW-through and tell me which night (after I'd already given you a few options). It's just plain rude. Argh.

He might not want to see me at all...but after ove a year of separation, can't he at least be civil? No, i know that's not how WAH's act. Is it guilt? Don't want to see you hurting?

Move on, I must move on...

[pearlharbr]

Here's the thing, H knows that you're still there waiting for him. He knows that if things get rough in his fab new life you'll be there for support. You need to show him that's not true, then make it not true.

I don't usually advocate this position, but hold onto that anger! You're right, it is rude. Would you tolerate that behavior from a girlfriend? Or would you let the friendship go because if she isn't willing to do her part it isn't a worthwhile relationship?

I'm not advising you to be rude to him. Just don't concern yourself about anything he does unless he reaches out to you with specific plans. Or unless you honestly need to discuss business matters like taxes. Don't kid yourself about need v. want because pursuing will only hurt you in the long run.

If the tax meeting can wait then put it off. You need to be in a better frame of mind before seeing him. You need to be able to meet him and project an air of confidence because you know you are moving on to the next chapter of your life and it is going to be terrific.

[25yearsmlc]

but what if anything can i do to increase the odds, or move on.

You move on. It fits both criteria.

THIS IS KEY TO UNDERSTAND...MOVING ON IS USUALLY THE ROUTE TO A RECONCILIATON IF THERE IS ONE...AND YET IT'S ALSO MANDATORY IF NO RECON TAKES PLACE...SO YOU DO IT....

Do not text/email/call him about getting dinner this week. Let it go. Wait another week or so then contact him about discussing taxes. That way it's not pursuing on a R level, it's simply a business meeting. And it shows that you're not sitting around waiting for his response to make plans. Don't do that! Make some other weekend plans now so if he does get in touch it will have to work around your schedule.

"AMEN" TO THIS POST....
j-

[25yearsmlc]

Here's the thing, H knows that you're still there waiting for him. He knows that if things get rough in his fab new life you'll be there for support. You need to show him that's not true, then make it not true.

I don't usually advocate this position, but hold onto that anger! You're right, it is rude. Would you tolerate that behavior from a girlfriend? Or would you let the friendship go because if she isn't willing to do her part it isn't a worthwhile relationship?

I'm not advising you to be rude to him. Just don't concern yourself about anything he does unless he reaches out to you with specific plans. Or unless you honestly need to discuss business matters like taxes. Don't kid yourself about need v. want because pursuing will only hurt you in the long run.

If the tax meeting can wait then put it off. You need to be in a better frame of mind before seeing him. You need to be able to meet him and project an air of confidence because you know you are moving on to the next chapter of your life and it is going to be terrific.

what pearl said!! And as for L's and spending gobs to save pennies, it goes both ways. If there are no real assets but you enabled him to earn substantially more, so you "contributed" to HIS earning potential, then I assume you told this to your Mass attorney and they said...what? If it's not something you can get in that state, then forget it. If it will cost you more in the long run, to NOT fight something now, then fight it now. Like I said, don't be penny wise but pound foolish and that argument can be used both ways, to fight and not to fight...I lack the info for an opinion b/c I'm not a MASS L or a div L there. What did THEY say? (As opposed to the Cal attorney)

Maybe You don't have assets in Mass state.. If your relative is not a Mass attorney either, just listen to the one IN the state with jurisdiction. Has your h filed and is now just waiting for the time line to finish? What's the benefit of filing taxes together? Is this simply a reason to see him? Is HE afraid you'll learn too much about his finances? Does HE know something you don't? Like maybe you CAN get some of his earnings or restitution vis a vis you getting an advanced degree like he did, and having HIM help YOU? Again, what did the Mass L say about that, or did you ask?

If he's earning lots more now, then figure out what's best for you FINANCIALLY and think of nothing else. As long as you are CALM CALM CALM, he cannot call you a B#@$% with effect. I found Marianne Williamson's books, ("Return to Love"especially) helpful in learning about letting go and forgiving and moving on. Does not mean totally losing hope. (Also there are exercises in Williamson's books about being calm. I used to do them when I thought H would call. It helped us not engage in fighting. Just having a calm conversation was a goal...At one point I wanted to say how much it bugged me paying all the bills since h was gone. But I had just had a DB coaching session (I highly highly recommend them if you have not had them) and so when I said "Just paid the X bill and that was a high one" and H interrupted angrily and said, "Now you know how I feel b/c I've been paying all the bills for 20 years!!..." and instead of me reacting the way I would have before, WITH ANGER at being deserted with kids and a house, instead I said, "I know- and I want to thank you for paying them b/c it's a stressful experience and must have been a big drag..." and h was silent for 30 seconds...then he said, "thank you" and we ended up having a nice conversation. For ME, that was insightful. I turned a potential surefire fight, into a bonding moment.
With your h, not bringing up the past is a start. I cannot stress that enough. You two will never see the past the same way. It's impossible. Many folks waste time on establishing who was more at fault and assigning blame. It's useless and worse...
As for being 33 and childless, big deal. I don't mean to be insensitive but you are 33 & cannot turn the clock back so it's useless to think that way. Plus My mom had her first child at age 32 and 8 more followed. I had my last one at age 38, and my sister in law at age 45, (she married at age 38)...today you don't HAVE to be under 35 to have kids. And frankly, your h does not sound anywhere near ready to be a good FATHER.....so you're probably better off with someone who wants to settle down and feels secure enough in his manhood to want to be home more. Exactly the opposite of where your stbx h is in his life. Regardless, don't let those concerns dictate your course of action now. That's a recipe for disaster.

Work on yourself, move on, and do your best as a "woman only a fool would leave." Be that woman whenever you are around him and that does mean setting and enforcing boundaries b/c a great woman is worth that. If you two meet up later, who knows? You may well be his barometer for whether a woman is right enough for him and if you pull off this "New Me" well enough, there may come a time he calls you, down the road of course. And strikes up a safe "long distance" kind of friendship with you, and then....who knows? As I said, 2 relatives did this and married their exes, but it was 5 years later. In that time you could meet someone else...I know it's not what you want to hear and we are on a divorce busting site but as stated before, in your case, moving on fits both criteria. Using your anger can be good IF IF IF the anger does NOT consume you, and IF IF IF, it allows you to see him objectively. Too many LBSers convince themselves they can ONLY be happy WITH their WAS's and that is never true.

If you become a woman only a fool would leave, then leave the results up to God. Turn your R with this man, over to Him, and heal. It's all you really can do to be a healthy loving person.
j-

[hhh]

Thanks to both Pearl and 25...lots to think about and I'm trying to not let emotions rule me and think about what is right course of action. Actually h did email me back this morning shortly after I posted. Said he's on a project for work and long rough hours and not liking his job all that much. Go figure...reality hits to some extent, perhaps. Not that it means anything different for us, but party is over. He asked is everything ok, anything urgent i need/want to discuss? and said that next week is better if I am not traveling. I think I may be here so we may be able to get together. How should I set this up? It would be nice to have a friendly exchange...it's hard to not have any relationship w someone you were so close to at one point in time.

I would calmly (and yes, calm is key) like to be see what he might feel comfortable cotributing back, since last yr at one pt he did say he'd pay back tuition money, and ask basics about taxes (we do still have to file as married since we were all 2009). BUT I also kinda just want to have a calm, civil dinner w hin before I leave. So I wonder if i say that i just have some housekeeping things to discuss (taxes or whatever and be vague) or come out and say thought it might be nice to get together before I move. (Since actually, I don't think he even knows I am officially moving now). It would be nice to part of civil ways, amicably, as friends, not consumed by anger.

I'll probably email him back in a day or so that next week might work. Frankly we've gotta communicate in some capacity. I still toy with the lawyer thing. The ones I have talked to in MA say that given length of your M and no kids, court would probably just say leave each w your own assets. I may see if I can sit down and formally interview one as I only talked to them on the phone for 20-30 mins.

Thanks for your ideas..your post yesterday 25 really resonated about how standing up for yourself can actually make h/a man respect you more...I think I've been fearful most of this past yr, afraid anything I did would upset him or give him another reason to put me down or call me selfish or fight. I don't want to fight, i am too drained to fight w him. The past is the past, you are so right...and if he can't let go of that and embrace what I once thought was our shared vision of the future, than so be it. I think I'm also just bitter b/c post school I envisioned us/me in a very different place...but it is what it is. I need to let go of this and open to the next phase.
Good night all, and peace.

[pearlharbr]

First of all, ^^ what 25 said! I wholeheartedly believe you need to discuss this with a lawyer. Go in for an interview, ask all the appropriate questions so you know what your options are. Knowledge is power. Do not give up your power because you want H to like you. That is not something a woman only a fool would leave would do. I saw a lawyer to find out what my legal standing was and I felt SO empowered after the meeting.

I would love it if you just gave up this idea of having a nice friendly dinner with H. I know you want to do it to show him how much you've changed in hopes that he will change his mind. I think you'll end up in R talk and that will set you back so much. Please rethink this dinner. It's something that should be done ONLY if you are detached and you can approach the sitch without emotion. Heck, even when BF wanted to reconcile I put him off for a month because I wasn't ready to see him in person. You can still communicate via email. That allows you to wait at least 48 hours before responding, compose your thoughts, and even get input from people here before saying anything that you may regret later.