Looking for Advice

[rockedworld]

Hi GW,

The short time I've been on these boards I have noticed that many times it takes a "crisis" to push the WAS into making a decision about the M. Often that takes the form of exposure, the A getting out, kids/family finding out etc. But, in your case, I wonder if this job sitch might be the "crisis" needed. Many times, when push comes to shove, a WAS has to face whether they really have the courage to leave a marriage, break up the family, deal with the financial consequences of D etc. Your W does not sound ready for all that to me. There is a whole lot of waffling going on.

I think you should not push, validate her feelings, but deal with choices that have to made, as they have to be made. Keep standing your ground... you choose this M, you want to do what is best for the kids, you want to everything possible to give this M 100% etc. She will then have some difficult choices to make and I don't think she has the guts. Just my opinion...

[gutwrenching]

Thanks Rocked! Gosh I hope you are right. I also really wish my W understood better the financial considerations, but I don't think she does. She is very comfortbale in that the nest egg we have built is larger than most at our age, and can thus probably over-come the financial fall out. I don't think she has any idea how costly this will be and if she did, she is more afraid of financial security than anything else.

The give 100% is a new phrase I came up with yesterday and really like it. It really seemed to spark something with her, much more so than words like piecing or trying or one day at a time. She asked a lot of questions about what 100% means to me and the beauty is that I can't define it and won't. I just keep on saying it means I can look the girls in the eye and look at myself in the mirror if things don't work out and say I gave it everything I had it just didn't work. And I'm not there yet.

She waffles some, but not as much as I like. Her strength and conviction comes and goes. Last night, not as strong. This morning, stronger again.

I'm hearing give space and stop pushing from two of my trusted friends and advisors - Rocked and Lost - so that needs to be the focus.

It would be good for her to break the routine tonight, we'll see. Meaning leaving work early and not working all night alone in the basement (and that doesn't bother me one bit any more which is huge step for me). Breaking the routine would show a significant waffle. I am going to lead by example with this tonight. I am going to leave early to go get dog food (which we are out of). We always let each other know when we are leaving because of day care with the kids, so I'll leave early and let her know I'm stopping for dog food and then have the kids. See if that sparks similar action on her part.

[gutwrenching]

I know I am looking ahead too much and realize I should not get any hope/expectations, but if I could get a little effort from her...

This Saturday night we have a social function at a nice hotel, many other couples just get a room for the night...I know I have at least two people that would watch the girls overnight...but I just don't think she is going to be ready for that.

[Lotus]

I think the night at the hotel sounds great! If she won't go, invite me! Have you checked out the nearest location and weekend for Retrouvaille? You are moving to Hawaii, you don't have months to go to counseling. One short weekend, and things will either be better or they won't. Yes, you can communicate, but you can improve on it.I don't see how giving 100% can possibly not include at least spending one weekend making a structured effort with the guidance of people who have done this successfully before. I'd give her the date and location and try to get it scheduled.

Doubtless to me, she is pushing on OM to see if he is leaving his wife and kids and ready to move in with her. The answer has not been "yes".

[gutwrenching]

Lotus - thanks for the push! I think I needed a push. I have looked up dates of Retrouvaille in this area, nothing on web. I just sent them an e-mail. I am willing to fly us somewhere to attend one of these, so I am going to look at cities for next few weekends (this weekend won't work, too quick for our life and commitments...I'm afraid she won't be willing the next weekend either...but I'm going to look). The cost of the airline tickets and hotels nothing compared to cost of D.

We need help communicating better - Retrouvaille should help. Everything I read about it, it is what we need. Deal with anger, deal with the mistrust, deal with the coldness...we don't hate each other, in fact we agree we are good friends. W doesn't think we can be more, need someone to help us get to more.

I doubt I'll bring it up tonight.

The hotel would be a nice start too...will suggest that too at some point, probably not tonight unless I'm getting a lot of positive vibes. If not, maybe I'll invite you!

Interesting input on OM. Could be. Maybe that's the real reason she doesn't want to decide now...wanted to give him time to decide to leave W and kids...though moving in together is not an option for them...no matter what, they will be thousands of miles apart.

[sandi2]

I remember my H wanting to hear me tell him that I would put forth effort in getting our M back on track. I felt so frazzled and so discourage.....and very unmotivated to work at a R with him. I hope you can try to realize that every day she is still there....she feels as though she is putting forth all the effort she can muster. I know that may not be enough, but it took me a good while before I could reach that place.

Don't know that I've said this to you or not, but I've told several that I had to get to the place of being willing "to be willing".....and that was a hard step for me. In fact, I think it had to be broken down into tiny baby-steps.

[TrentC]

I felt so frazzled and so discourage.....and very unmotivated to work at a R with him. I hope you can try to realize that every day she is still there....she feels as though she is putting forth all the effort she can muster. I know that may not be enough, but it took me a good while before I could reach that place.

Thanks for sharing this with us.

[sandi2]

Also - do I mention again the we don't have it that bad. She admits we are good friends and very compatible and work well together. It is trust, communication, and her not feeling anything for me that are the current roadblocks.

I would say not to bring it up any more.

I tell you what I think of when I read some of the posts from men here on the board. I think of my favorite pair of houseshoes. They've had a lot of wear & tear and sometimes I think I should get new ones. I've had them a long time, but I'm just not ready to throw them out. After all, they are very comfortable. I know I can rely on them to not hurt me. However, I don't wear them out dancing! Get the point?

[rob668]

sandi, i Do follow other threads. I think i maybe a pair of "houseshoes". But i'd love to be those dancing shoes, or maybe a nice pair of stilettos! rob

[gutwrenching]

I remember my H wanting to hear me tell him that I would put forth effort in getting our M back on track. I felt so frazzled and so discourage.....and very unmotivated to work at a R with him. I hope you can try to realize that every day she is still there....she feels as though she is putting forth all the effort she can muster. I know that may not be enough, but it took me a good while before I could reach that place.
Don't know that I've said this to you or not, but I've told several that I had to get to the place of being willing "to be willing".....and that was a hard step for me. In fact, I think it had to be broken down into tiny baby-steps.

Sandi - thanks you so much for lending your personal experience again. My W has used almost those exact same words. She has said many times that she has to "see if I can get to a place were I am even willing to work on things."

You had not shared that with me before, I would have remembered because the wording is so, so close to what my W says to me. And I understand how long that could take...thus the anxiety of me possibly leaving soon and leaving her here. She has told me no effort either because she is too tired or other times she tells me because she has to feel something for me and want to try...and she doesn't right now.

I know I can rely on them to not hurt me. However, I don't wear them out dancing! Get the point?

I get the point. Really do. That is the hard part - knowing W isn't trying, isn't interested yet in wearing those shoes out dancing and knowing both of our lives are so busy that it seems there is no time to even think about dancing.

So now I'm hearing it over and over...back down. Will try to avoid R talks tonight or even future talks, W may or may not bring it up. It is draining on both of us. I would like her to take a night off from work, but I don't control that. If she works, I'll go take a walk or go for an ice cream.