Looking for Advice

[Lost Rabbit]

GW dont fear the separation, one it makes you behave panicked however hard you try not too and two its not in the bag yet!

MrsGW is fogtalking when she says you'd be better as friends and not M. Mr Rabbit kept saying that too and was always told that if we were to D I could not be friends, you cant be in the same room with someone you love and just be a friend what planet are they on?

I had to let Mr Rabbit go, we had some councilling and the councillor put it in his head to have a trial separation, there was nothing I could do to fight it so I we agreed on two weeks, me hoping he would see sense but not to be he went on to rent a flat, and I went NC obviously not so easy with you and the girls but there is nothing to stop you keeping contact to a minimum with MrsGW. Although I do think that if you were to separate I'd be firmly reiterating that boundary of NC with OM or you will tell his W. Anyway what I wanted to say that letting Mr Rabbit go was the best thing I could have done he had clammed up so much I couldnt get to him under my own roof but eventually the new me was sighted and he is now back here full time from Wednesday. So dont fear a separation use it.

[gutwrenching]

We've had a lot more talking still no resolution. I'd say right now she is 95% gone but not 100% and she has said she doesn't want to have to make this decision so quick. She talks a lot more about the jobs/locations in terms of us being D. I asked her about that and her reply was if we are together its easy, we live in the same house and there's nothing to think about. Don't know if I believe that or not.
At some point, she said our biggest issues right now are trust and lack of communication. But later she says she isn't trying, so how in the world are we going to communicate. I know, typical WAS, and we are having this discussion to soon.

She is leery of Hawaii because we would have to continue to work closely together which would be more awkward and would run into each other more since it is a small island.

She admits she still isn't trying and doesn't think we can get the spark back. She admits we are good friends and very compatible, but there is nothing more and she doesn't think I am capable of giving her more.

We still have to figure out what to do. We've agreed the real issue is our R/M situation not anything else. If we were doing fine, this would be a no brainer. She doesn't think a separation now does us any good because I will trust her less (since I won't be here to watch her) and we won't be communicating/working on things/etc.

One more thing, and I don't know if this is good or bad, looking for feedback and this has nothing to do with figuring out the job. As I have been trying hard to build some friendships with other people and GAL, she too is obviously noticing. I've been talking with two people a lot more, one male, one female, both married. W seems very cognizant of female friend. Is this good or bad. In fact, she made a comment tonight that she wondered how she would feel if she had to drop off the kids to me with another W. She said she was ok with it, and then said especially if it is ___ because I really like her. WOW...that one caught be off guard. This person is married and has been for 20 years. But is my W suspecting something? In fact, this friend was a sitter for us last night. Another couple invited us out to dinner and we couldn't say no. We had trouble finding a sitter and this female friend has helped us before so wife said to me "you call her, you're her buddy these days"
I ignored the comment, called her, and she agreed to watch the kids for us.
Is this good or bad?

[Lotus]

No, it doesn't mean anything. It is her fantasizing what it would be like if you had a girlfriend who happens to be a good friend and babysitter. It is her continuing her fantasy of what a perfect divorced life would look like. You can tell her that you are not having an affair with that woman. She knows that, she is just trying the idea on like a pair of shoes. Of course, it is nothing like what the reality would be.

[rockedworld]

Hi GW,
I would not worry about that either. My H started almost trying to push me towards other men, especially an old HS BF (who is married). He tells me now that he was to both appease his conscience and wanting me to be happy. Now that the fog is lifting, he admits it was ridiculous and also that he would have a hard time seeing me with someone else. Now that we are piecing, the tables are turning and he is the one afraid of losing me. So, please be reassured that it is all part of the fog mentality. In their confusion and self-absorption, they try to find ways to justify their own actions hoping it will minimize hurt to you and the kids.

If you can, try to minimize the R talks now and just focus on being the best GW you can be. Be calm, cool, confident, fun... keep doing 180's, making little changes.

[gutwrenching]

Other interesting points from last night. Later in the evening, despite cold temps, I decided I needed fresh air, went out on walk. Had to let W know because of the kids. After walk she was way curious where I went. I said I walked in the neighborhood, she asked where and just said around and she really wanted to know what the route was what part I walked in. I found that odd/curious.

Later more talking as we hadn't gotten any resolution yet. A lot of words and a few weeks ago I'd be upbeat, by now, I know words are meaningless.

She asked what I had figured out on my walk. I said I came too 2 conclusions: if I were playing the odds, I should do whatever I can to take the job in Hawaii because I think odds are low on you wanting to work things out. I then said if I am looking out for kids to do what is right for them, I should run away from the job and continue to see if things can get worked out to not tear apart the foundation of the world as they know it. She asked for some more specifics on what I meant by working it out and also made some comments on how I have already stated I'm losing feelings every day for her. So I simply said until I have given a 100% effort to working things out, then I haven't done everything I can for the kids. She asked what 100% meant and I said I honestly don't know, but I know I haven't given it that yet. She then said do you think that means we should go to counselling. That one was a first. Luckily I was prepared, I said I think individual counselling would do us both more good right now but there is a weekend retreat program that I have read about that I might be interested in. I described retrouville slightly and vaguely to her just to plan the seed.

At some point another interesting comment that I haven't heard since early Novemeber. She says to me I don't know what my issue is, I realize lots of people have way worse issues than we have and continue to work at it, I should be able too also. At this point I nicely validated understanding how she got to this point and then tried to put a positive spin on it that yes many were worse off I've seen a lot lately, we aren't a complete lost cause. She then asked me for the examples/updates on what I've seen lately (got a lot of nasty marital problems going on around me and she knows about many). The one that caught her attention was the couple dealing with the husband cheating on his wife for 5th time. W asked me if I would divorce her if she did that 5 times. I said probably. I asked her same question and her response is probably, everyone has their breaking point.

Lastly, we've decided we need to tell our boss a little more. He is highly suspicious, he doesn't understand all the anxiety over this job, and we are going to need his support regardless of how things turn out.

And I put one last positive spin on things. Told her we had communicated more/better this weekend than we have in who knows how long. She agreed and then said but it is going to take more than communication and I agreed with her on that.

Thoughts/advice?

[Dane]

Signs of promise maybe.

[gutwrenching]

Now the debate, how to best proceed from here. We agreed that we communicated much better this weekend, but that still doesn't change the fact she doesn't feel anything. Also we might have opened the door towards counselling or retrouville or something like that...so do I mention that again or just back away.

Also - do I mention again the we don't have it that bad. She admits we are good friends and very compatible and work well together. It is trust, communication, and her not feeling anything for me that are the current roadblocks.

I think for certain, another walk is in the plan for tonight or possibly the ice cream cone visit.

We talked to our boss, he strongly urged we take the time to work on us and he would give it to us. I could read the body language, W's body language was saying she's not there to work on us still.

[gutwrenching]

This sitch could get moving real quick. I heard that I am one of 5 being considered for job and that it will be discussed today--decision possible--or decide to do interviews. I have also not ruled out if told the job is mine to saying no thanks or having the cahones to ask for a later reporting date which is just not heard of in the military with positions like these...but I haven't decided. Situation is so delicate right now.

I talked to W briefly on phone to discuss this. I sent her a short e-mail, stating here's where the situation is at, I've had some more thoughts on the matter, don't want to do it on e-mail or TM, can talk about later tonight. She replied to the e-mail and I couldn't tell what the tone was--might have been sarcastic(thus why we should communicate less on email/TM, we need to see or at leat hear the non-verbals and such). Then about 10 minutes later she called me. I didn't try to pretend I didn't know it was her, that is not the place we are at right now.

We talked about when she would move (our boss said he would let her leave sooner than June if we wanted too...but the issues are D8 in school and selling house). I did mention that although stressful moving in school year, might be less traumatic than D to our kids. I am really trying to focus my thinking on what is best for the girls. I am thinking a kid can survive the trauma of losing her friends/school in 2nd grade more than a D by her parents. W then said what about selling the house, no way we sell the house that quick. I just said look I'm just talking out loud about the kids right now; I'm not saying I have the answers, I'm just trying to think through it. And, no matter what, this move is going to be a financial hit to us (I'll spare you all the details, not relevant, but trust me, we are going to feel it in the wallet).

I said we can talk more later if you like, we just don't need to do it over e-mail that is all I was trying to convey. I also said there were other things we could talk about tonight. She pressed me for what. So I said what about counselling, you brought it up last night. After a long pause and sigh, I got an "I don't know"

Finally we agreed that we can do all this later. I told W we both need more sleep. She said what if I leave work early today. I guess I chuckled a little or made some kind of noise because she said I'm serious, I want to try to leave early today.

I said nothing, because I don't believe it will happen. I belive she wants too but don't think she has the willpower right now to let go. She is still hiding from things by burying herself in work. Our boss told her today she needs to let go of things and take care of personal situation...he sees it too...everyone does. I've never seen her like this. Must be the fog.

Right now, I get the impression she is thinking about trying, but isn't there yet. For the first time since the bomb was dropped, I think she is actually thinking about whether or not she can try. Before now, it was all talk, just give me space, I need to think about things, when in reality she was probably only thinking about OM. A couple of times I had even asked her if she had thought about things and she told me no both times. I haven't asked her in a long time, realized that is pursuing and also learned to read the actions better.

The crisis of the shortened timeline has caused a slight change...maybe some of the stuff I have done has helped too, who knows, its all at once. The fog isn't as penetrating and the pain in her face/body is more evident. That is what I am basing this assessment on, what I see and what I feel more so than what I hear. When I walk down in the basement on her (stopped letting her take that as her territory), I see a different person. She isn't nervous, she isn't consumed with the internet, she is different, she is troubled, she is more drained.

I don't know whether to push or back off at this point.

I did say that we needed to take some time for ourselves, something we didn't really do this weekend and have done very little of lately. She said like what, I said something mindless, like set aside some time to just sit and watch TV together and not stress about anything. She seemed to agree that would be good (but I know that means she has to let go of work for that time also which is hard for her these days though she did work less last night at the house than she has in weeks). I know my wife, escaping reality by watching TV has always been good for her emotional health in the past when things get stressful.

I'm worried that I am on a fine line between pursuing and just pushing because of the gravity of the situation and not giving enough space.

I am in a sitch that isn't fitting any of the models or norms. Opinions welcome at this point.

There is one positive of all this...it has helped me immensely to stop obsessing about the OM. These developments have really drove home how little he means in the bigger picture. I hope to be able to continue that after we get thru this crisis.

[Lost Rabbit]

Personally step back again give her space, she is being pressure by the whole job thing so dont add to it yourself, she will appreciate and respect this even if she doesnt say so!

Definitely a chink in her armour appearing, lots of hope for better things for you both!

[gutwrenching]

Journaling a little and in hopes that someone else reads this and can help them. The best thing I did in the last few days was take an opportunity to give a version (although toned down) of the "I get it" speech. W has referred, multiple times now, to the fact that I said I was losing feelings for her each day. It has given me leverage to say I want to try without seeming like pursuing because I have said I'm moving on a little more each day. In our life, hard to show those actions, so the words actually meant more to her I think.