WAW and 4 kids

[pigskin]

Tough to tell what goes on in the minds of those in affairs. My wife surprises me with contrite and/or caring comments every once and a while as well. Kind of lulls you into thinking maybe they are coming around. But then they do something to completely negate all of that.

You have to think that only a psychopath could have zero conscience when involved in an affair. I'm sure there are quite a few times when the enormity of it hits them. Then guilt takes over and they send you a nice text message. Maybe helps them feel better for a bit.

I'd just chalk it up as something nice for a change, but don't expect anything more.

[tryingtilDorR]

It's been a couple of weeks since posting. I have been really busy with my new job and am leaving town tommorrow.

We scheduled a mediation appointment. W pushed to get it scheduled and we are going next Monday, 2/1. Her goals, from what I can tell, are, in this order:

1) get agreement for us to alternately move out of house - each getting our 'own' place (previously she had wanted us to share a place and go back and forth). This would keep kids in the house but us separated.

2) get me to pay her so she can get a place for herself that kids can alternate to/from


My goals are:

1) Establish terms for a final S/D agreement that addresses how much she would be expected to work in order to calculate child support

2) Determine division of assets, primarily the house. We need to figure out if it will be sold, and when , and if not when she would expect to be paid for her half of the equity. Division of other assets (cars, furniture, etc) shouldn't be that hard.

Once my (1) and (2) goals are sorted out, THEN I would be interested in figuring out what to do in the interim before things are final (alternately move out, her move out, whatever).


She doesn't want to discuss the ultimate 'end game'. She doesn't want to file for D, only legal S. I think she wants to just figure out how much money she can get if she just moves out - my stance is that we need a formal agreement in place before I pay her a dime, and the agreement would be the same whether or not we D or S. It should be interesting with the mediator - she doesn't want to pay the full retainer yet just have the initial meeting. I think she is 'fishing' to figure out if she can get what she wants just from mediation (me pay her to go and be single without getting a D).

Otherwise, things have been really good between us. I have completely let her go now it feels so there is no reason to fight/argue. It was interesting that she pushed for mediator appointment as soon as this situation arrived - I think she realizes I won't give her any ammunition any more and I assume she has some business to do with OM.

My IC told me that even if we got in a fight every 4/6 weeks, which was what was happening, that kids prefer to keep family all together. W says she needs to leave because kids hearing fights isn't a good thing. The thing she is really looking for here is privacy/space, while I have turned into a nice roomate who doesn't care about her comings/goings any more.

[pigskin]

So she wants you guys to have the house and each of you with your own apartment? Couldn't you share an apartment if you agree to the swap out arrangement?

Did she ever say why she wants separation, specifically? I wanted my wife to explain specifically what she was looking to get out of it, otherwise quit beating around the bush and divorce me. She said she wanted time away to find herself (script), but later said she wanted a chance to miss me. Has not pulled the trigger on divorce, even in the slightest fashion, like visiting an attorney. Can't even finish books on divorce.

[tryingtilDorR]

Her reasons are that it isn't good for kids to hear us fighting, which I agree with, but I decided that there was nothing to fight about anymore if I am truly letting her go. The fights were happeneing every 4-8 weeks usually, but nothing really bad.

This has been the change in the past few weeks - I have let her go to the point where I have no urge to argue with her about anything. I have invalidated her reason for leaving. I am just trying to get her to stick around a few months so the kids can finish school and I can get going on my new job and we can get our financial affairs in order (lots of bills right now).

However, the fact that she is still hell-bent on separating tells me she has OM-plans most likely, and is feeling guilty living under the same roof as me. I may be mind-reading here, but it is all I can come up with. She has wanted to be 'roomates' for a year now and I fought her over it - now she is getting what she wants and needs to move?

Her original idea was to do as you said pigskin - share an apartment. However, recently she has nixed that idea and wants to get separate places. Again, I think it is because she has OM plans and doesn't want to share a place with me (OM might not want to be at a place she alternately shares with me).

[tryingtilDorR]

I started a new job a week and a half ago and already feel a difference in my life. The new job is invigorating in a lot of ways. My old job was boring but very easy and flexible, which allowed me to really focus on myself and my family for the past year. I read books, worked out, went to counseling, visited church, did a lot around the house, was present at all of my kids activities, picked them up from school, etc. This has been good but there are some bad things as well. I feel like I have grown a lot, but also had a little too much time on my hands. I am now so busy with work I don't have time to sit around and think about my M much.

I left town for 3 days for work and met a lot of new people. I left my wedding ring at home - when I look at it it reminds me that she isn't wearing one, so I decided to take it off. I had no desire to communicate with the W while I was gone. She sent me a couple of text msgs however wondering how I was doing, etc. When I got home she asked me questions about the trip, the job, and other things. She actually seemed interested.

The marked difference for me on this trip was not missing my W, or being sad that I had no M to come home to. When I left the country for a week in September I was sad while I was gone thinking about how I used to look forward to coming home and seeing W and how sad I was that all that was gone,etc etc. This trip was different.

Monday we go to the mediator appointment she scheduled. We really can't afford to separate right now, but I am going with an open mind. My agenda is to start working on a final agreement, and once we have that we can backtrack to figure out what the best living arrangement is in the short term. She wants us to each get our own place and alternately leave. I want a final settlement in place before talking about any of short-term living arrangements.

Hammering out a final settlement now, while things are still civil, is a good idea I figure. In addition, I think she will receive a reality check and become more reasonable (or go the other direction when she realizes her world will get a lot tougher than she thought and she will get angry). She is looking to do a legal separation from what I can tell.

My feeling right now is that if she moves out we should file for D. She has told me for a year that she is only here for our kids, doesn't want to be married to me, and has no hope for us to have a happy future together. Why on earth wouldn't she want to D under those circumstances once she decides it is time to stop living together? At least before she was staying for the kids, but once she can't even do that anymore what is the point of not D (as opposed to a legal separation).

It should be interesting. On the other hand it may be a non-event because she may balk and not want to move forward with ANYTHING (just be in Limbo some more). If history is a guide that is likely to occur I figure - I will have to take action in the end possibly. I figure it all depends upon how bad she wants to live a full single life.

[pigskin]

Do you still have hope for your marriage? Do you want to stay married to her?

I took my ring off for a couple of days (W carelessly lost hers a few months ago and had taken off her engagement ring months before that) but it didn't feel right given my position on saving the marriage. Just because she is not honoring the commitment doesn't mean you should copy her (two wrongs don't make a right and all), unless you too have ended the relationship in your mind as well.

[tryingtilDorR]

Pigskin - I actually put ring back on today for pretty much the reasons you state above. I don't want M to be over and still have some small hope that things can turn.

I had been wearing my original ring, but the one I put on today was one I bought later on when my original didn't fit anymore (I had gained weight).

It isn't my original ring, but it shows the rest of the world that I consider myself to be married. I figure I will put the original one back on if by some miracle we sort this out and she decides to wear hers again as well.

[Onthemountaintop]

Just a thought about your wife's point on the fighting in front of the kids...

I read a study that said many kids from divorced parents who were considered to be physically abusive still wanted their parents together.

I thought about the kids for a while, but then I realized they were an excuse - leaving definately will hurt them in the short and possibly long term.

My cousin had it rough, but he said that even today as a 30 yr old he expects relationships to end at some point. Others I know were OK with it, but it seems to hit a nerve.

As I say this, I've got 3 months to reconcile or D with my wife and 5 kids...so I am not all hope, but she might want to reconsider her reasons to exclude the kids.

[tryingtilDorR]

OMT - I agree with you on what is best for the kids. I have thought about this a lot and also discussed it with my IC. My IC said that if you ask a kid if they want their parents to split because they argue they will say NO and that they always will want to keep their family together.

Our kids have heard arguments over the past year here and there. They are about a month to 6 weeks apart now primarily some angry words, nothing more, usually related to her disrespecting me or not being polite in front of our kids - sometimes the examples she sets is really awful and we would never want our kids to talk to other people like she does to me at times. The arguments were more frequent about a year ago when I was an emotional wreck.

Now, after all this, my W says she wants to leave because it isn't good for the kids, but the situation has been the same or worse for the previous year, so why is it an issue now?

The point is she wants to leave for HER not our KIDS. In fact, staying 'for the kids' was her story up until now.

Again, what she says she wants, and actually wants and does, could be completely two different things.

[pigskin]

Pigskin - I actually put ring back on today for pretty much the reasons you state above. I don't want M to be over and still have some small hope that things can turn.

Good man, tryingtilDor. It's tough to remain honorable when all you get is dumped on. But society needs people who stand up for what is right despite the difficulty.

Regarding kids as mentioned above, I don't care what anyone says about them being able to adapt, they get royally screwed in the divorce deal. Yes, staying only for the kids is not reason enough to keep a marriage together. But it is a huge reason for giving it everything you have. They didn't ask to be born; they deserve parents who work on their differences and find a way to solve them. When you have a child you make a tremendous commitment not only to raise them properly, but to also maintain a loving and healthy family relationship against all trials and tribulations.

I really can't stand books or people who suggest "the kids will be fine if you do it right". Really? They would be a lot more fine if you fixed the marriage and kept the family together...