You know - I think it is a common thing - figuring out how to get out there after being married.
I just googled open mic nights in the area - there's a lot going on around here. I think I need to get my band buddy out there with me doing this, or for that matter, do it alone.
Would really like to get some momentum doing gigs, but that's a little more work.
haha of course life gets messy and I don't like to clean. i 've always wanted to join a band, only trouble is there isn't much room in popular music for sax players. I usually spend my lonely nights fixing computers or playing video games. 1 of these nights i'll have to finish designing the map i'm creating for the gamei play. 1 thing she did take is my ambition. I haven't gotten it back yet, just pushing through with the minimum.
H28 | WAW24 | S8 | D5 | SD2 | D1 | T6 | M1 My Story | My Motivation
Bill & Boys-While my sitch has diff's it has alot of similarities. I've been with my wife for 33 years, and we are currently in episode #3 of her being the WAS. Lately it feels an awfully lot like #1 when she had a pa. (for all I know she could be having another and then I WOULD be done).
She goes dark, and then like Bills W will come over and have great sex, and then be in turmoil over it. Like Bill, it throws a fog over me. I think I'm done, and then feel hope, then feel...who knows what you feel after several of these?
I've begun to detach, and when she popped in yesterday (after a few weeks of detaching) she is acting detached (well yeah-she is the one that moved out w/o notice) anyway I am short on the convo, I did ask what was up with our R and she was very vauge, so I then encouraged her to leave and go get some sleep to which she asked if I was trying to get rid of her and if a GF was coming over?
Now I'm sure she knows that would not be in my plans while married, but then we ML that was pretty intense. ?????
So if we are supposed to do the same as the WAW, and create space and mystery and the unknown I have a couple of ?
Like many of you, it's easier if I don't have to deal with W on regular basis with her calling all the shots. Although all my kids are now adults and gone, we have one older son living with me who is suffereing from paranoia/skitso complex, and W takes almost zero responsiblity for him. I have debated relocating and am serious about it. If I followed my WAW example, I would take the next few weeks and get my ducks in a row, rent the house, and just pick up and move w/o telling her squat. Is that going to fit in with the DBing?
It takes away my ability to say no when she feels like getting a little (which I can't seem to do) It seems like it would help me focus on me and my life easier, as I wouldn't even be there to drive by her place to see if see's stuck in the snow or not, it just seems like it would be so much easier.
Maybe it's a form of running away, maybe it's just a coping mechanism? It may be the the thing that gets this R off dead center-one way or another. Like Bill was thinking-I'm wondering if I am just done (I sleep much better now too) or like Bill-I'd find out I really am not done at all, or at least maybe discover where I really want to be?
What are your thoughts? Not to hj thread, but seems many of us are at similar points in our R's.
DBS - wish I had answers. But have a little more insight into my own sitch today.
Well guys, we went to therapy today. Talked about where we are on all this. W said she's not 100% certain, but at this point staying married would be a business transaction.
About the sex - what W said in therapy is that she did that because, after I'd diverted direct deposit to my own account, she wanted to assure that I'd still pay the bills.
C asked what I thought about that. I told her I was mortified.
I mean, holy s#!t - what have we come to when that's the case. She was pretty upset when she was saying this.
Anyway, we talked about how things seem to escalate - we say we're going to mediate, then W gets a lawyer - we say we're going to negotiate, then W gets court dates - and it seems that this is all mostly because the lawyers aren't really working towards our best interests.
Other things that were said - W is so overwhelmed by fears of finances, that she can't think straight about the R. C said, W needs some time away alone. I suppose she'd going to go this weekend. She actually said that she was trying to NOT go away so I wouldn't suspect her of being with OM.
So, the course of action now is, we go to a mediator (I'd already called to one, and will call to make an appointment tomorrow), we both get rid of our lawyers. We get the financial stuff established, get the custody schedule figured out, get all this done - maybe live with that for awhile, but keep the option of not signing the final papers. Who knows.
C asked what we wanted. I told her, I don't know about divorce or reconciliation - I just want the hurt to stop for both of us. Stand down. I said I don't want a relationship that's a business transaction, I would want a real marriage. Regarding reconciliation, 3 weeks ago I would have said no way, but if there's any hope it's worth exploring.
Anyway, we're nowhere near exploring that right now. So, establish boundaries, establish finances, establish schedule with the kids, then see where we are.
We exchanged the following emails afterward:
Me:
I'm sorry. I didn't understand your perspective. What you described feeling is horrible. That's not the kind of relationship I want with you, in any event. That's not the person I want to be, and that's not the situation I want to put you in. I'm not sure what else to say. I'm glad you said what you did.
It's easy to be mad, or to feel like we're adversaries. It's easy for this whole process to make me focus on what I'm feeling, or to say or do things that are hurtful. The truth is, I'm appalled at where we are.
You've been my partner in every regard for over a decade. I respect you. I feel a need to honor that. I don't want to contribute to the despair you feel. I don't want to cheapen our history by what's happening now.
I need to go - I wish I had better words. ------------------------------- W:
Those are great words actually and I really appreciate you saying them. Honoring the wonderful history we have together is what I strive for as well.
It helped so much today just to be able to get some of that off my chest. Talking to this gal today caused me to feel like a big weight has been lifted and has given me hope for the future. I really like the idea of being able to move forward with the separation, but not feeling the pressure of having to rush the signing of the divorce.
I like our new plan of going to a mediator. I have truly always felt that we actually are very close to agreement and that both of us want to be reasonable based on what is deemed fair by those in the know.
Thanks for setting up the meeting today.
Talk to you soon. ----------------------------
Anyway, I was over there tonight to be with the boys. When W came home, we did talk. It was better. We're going to keep going to therapy. We have another appointment next Monday. We have an appointment with a family therapist on Friday, to talk about the boys. We're going to set up a mediation appointment. I don't know what direction we're moving in. Well, the C said it well: we're moving toward divorce, but both have reservations.
In other news, W now wants me to keep the house, because she can't afford it, and it's the boys' home. I'm not sure if I'll be able to afford it after the settlement either, but I guess I'm willing to look at it. C said our schedule should be as close to 50/50 as possible, so we discussed a scenario where they live with me at the house, W has them after school and alternate weekends. I don't know what's workable at this point.
Ahh, I've got to go to sleep. I guess I feel better, some of the walls between us are down. Hopefully the wild swings will dissipate now.
Well, tomorrow is Feb 1. I guess our 6 months are about up, from W filing in August. Not that we're close to settlement.
No fighting this week. I think the therapist appt on Monday did help us stand down.
W called me Monday right after 5:00, sounded like she was having a breakdown; the kids were giving her a hard time, she was having a hard to coping. I went to the house, took over, fed the kids, got everything situated while she pulled herself together. She seemed grateful for it. She said at one point, it seems like you're mad at me... so I smiled and said, no I'm just tired.
W has always been hyper-sensitive to my moods, and the internalizes it, as if it's something she's doing. I think this has been a consistent problem in our marriage, it causes unnecessary tension. So she still is.
Anyway, work has been tough - of course, work has always been tough... I'm an engineering manager at a microelectronics company that has a reputation for chewing people up and spitting them out. Well, of course, this has been another problem in our marriage, the demands of this job. Ended up crying in a bathroom stall Thursday evening. That's embarrassing to admit. And it's not that work's hard, or I had a hard day; it's really dealing with what I seem to have given up for a stupid job that, honestly, just takes. I've given my emotional resources to dealing with the stupid job over these past years. I do think that my W has greater needs than a lot of women - not to blame - it's just that, I haven't been able to find balance.
Friday we went to see the therapist that's going to see the kids, and that seemed to go well. As we were driving back, said that she could tell my "downer vibe" as I was still stressing about work.
I had plans to go see some friends' band play Friday night, W asked me to come over beforehand to see the kids. I was really tired, and I think she was expecting me to not go. She was feeling crappy (cycle had started), and had laid down with me on the couch. Wanted me to put my hand on her lower back, then wanted me to put her hand on her lower belly to help with the cramps. Then she said, "this isn't appropriate...", and I though, damn right, and got up. When I told her I was still going out, she seemed surprised at the disappointment she felt. So yeah, I went, stayed out until 1:00. The next day, when I told her I'd "talked to people" there (women), she said she still feels very possessive of me.
So, I picked up the boys. This is supposed to be a weekend to herself, as per the therapist. We were at Boarders when she called and asked if we should all go to the movies. So we did. She put her head on my shoulder for a little bit, held my hand for a little bit.
I have to admit, I don't get that little thrill when she wants to do these things anymore. I don't feel like, OH, here's a sign things are turning around. I must admit to being mildly annoyed. I told her at one point, you're using me to get your emotional boosts. I think I actually said that to her Friday too, you're using me to just feel better. Glad I got up. She apologized later, for if I found it inappropriate. I just kind of shrugged.
She doesn't have a whole lot to do on her own. She went to Starbucks and Costco on Saturday, I guess. Don't know what she's doing today. This morning, the boys are just reading. No TV here. If we were at the house, I'd kick them out into the yard. But a down day is OK.
Collected more papers. We have a consultation for mediation tomorrow, so putting together the data that was requested. Also have another therapy appointment tomorrow.
I guess I don't trust to feel anything about it. I feel tired of the back-and-forth, so maybe I'm becoming numb to it.
The other thing, W has decided she can't afford the house, and has suggested that I keep it. And that the boys live there, keeping their home. I'm trying to decide if that's a good idea - selling the house would be a pain in the neck. But - if I have to buy out her equity, that's a whole lot of our other investments I'd have to give up. Lots of house, no money. Plus need to figure out what support will be, for monthly expenses. Need to think on that one.
Regarding the dating comments - recall that I had dated last fall, after I confronted W about lying to me and sleeping with OM, and told her I was completely done and walking away, and gave her my wedding ring back. Well, I made the mistake of going out with a mutual friend. At the time, we had both questioned if it was a good idea, and had determined to tell W (but didn't). It ended largely because of all the surrounding weirdness, she in talking to W she thought that we were going to reconcile, didn't want to stand in the way of that, was frustrated that I was still living in the same house with W and she "didn't want to share", etc. It had gotten too serious too quickly, and had gotten weird. Anyway, since last fall she and W have gotten closer - and W still doesn't know. Somehow, that bothers me, that W regards her as such a good friend while she's keeping this secret. Anyway, putting this down now, because Friday night we all went to a school function, and it was awkward, as W and I were there with the twins, and she was right next to us with her triplets. (yes, I know.)
In therapy, W said one of the things that got her attention, regarding her certainty about D, was her reaction to me dating. She did not expect to feel so intensely about it as she did.
In therapy, she C said we should not be dating anyone right now, and asked us each what's going on. I said, nope. W said that she still talks to OM but hasn't seen him, and he's moving to a different state. Whatever; I don't trust anything she says about it.
I think that was fine you helped with the kids when your W was having a minor breakdown. Your kids should always be a top priority. Good on going out even when your W expected you not to go. I think you were wrong to include your W on the movies and let her rest her shoulder on you. She needs to see separation/divorce from you will not be like the fantasy she has in her head.
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The next day, when I told her I'd "talked to people" there (women), she said she still feels very possessive of me.
Yep, she definitely enjoys cake-eating. I don't think this is a good thing.
Well, your W wants you to make sacrifices to allow your sons to live in the same house. It's her choices that are making this a possibility. I don't think you should do that unless it is the right choice for you, financially and emotionally. I'm sure wherever you choose to live will be a nice place for your boys, and your W should have no input or pressure on you to do something that may not be in your best interest.
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Anyway, since last fall she and W have gotten closer - and W still doesn't know. Somehow, that bothers me, that W regards her as such a good friend while she's keeping this secret. Anyway, putting this down now, because Friday night we all went to a school function, and it was awkward, as W and I were there with the twins, and she was right next to us with her triplets. (yes, I know.)
I think this is horrible. I don't think it's at all fair for your W to be considering this woman a good friend, when by her actions it is clear that she isn't. I think your W should know the truth, don't you think that is clearly wrong?
I don't think you should do that unless it is the right choice for you, financially and emotionally. I'm sure wherever you choose to live will be a nice place for your boys, and your W should have no input or pressure on you to do something that may not be in your best interest.
It may be the right thing for me, I'm just not sure yet.
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I think this is horrible. I don't think it's at all fair for your W to be considering this woman a good friend, when by her actions it is clear that she isn't. I think your W should know the truth, don't you think that is clearly wrong?
I do think it's wrong, yeah. I've thought about telling her; it would be a big thing, though, and she's been overwhelmed and kind of fragile for so long. No, I don't think it's fair to her. I think it's a little sick.
This happened once I resolved there was no looking back, W had slept with OM, I was done and moving on with my life, and the D was certain. It started as friends supporting each other (she's struggling as a single mom). This is why I'm anti-dating at this point - it's clear to me that my judgment was not good. Self-absorbed and reckless.
Thanks Karen for reading all of that and giving me your honest feedback.
Yesterday was a full day. Had counciling - funny, W insists on calling it "couple's councling", not marriage counciling. Also had a long meeting with the mediator.
The message from both of them were essentially the same: "You two don't know what you want." The mediator (I think this woman is a lawyer in addition to being LMFT) basically said, it's OK to not know, you'll know when you know... give it time.
Counclier reiterated establishing the boundaries, coming up with the support and custody agreements. Essentially she's giving the same advice as DBing, I guess - space, boundaries, live seperate lives until the dust settles.
From the mediator, I think it's pretty clear that we're going to have to put up the house for sale, neither one of us would be able to keep it. She actually seemed to get a little thrill when she detected some possibility of reconsiliation, and that she might help with that. When we talked about some of the stuff we had done together recently she said, "You're dating..." (meaning each other). We worked through some of the contentious financial data, basically said W needs to make the business tax returns available to establish her real income. Having a productive conversation about this maybe helped take a step back to trust. Actually, she said that it seemed that we really had no problem with trust in general from our behavior.
We didn't come out of mediation with anything more than a conversation, and a bunch of data - she ran the numbers for different scenarios of support.
In therapy, we talked about the moments of connection that we've had, and all the confusion we've both experiencing. The C's paraphrasing of W was something along the lines of "I feel bonded and connected to you, but am unsure if I can live with you..." All stuff I knew. Same old thing.
In the car, W expressed her confusion - what she thinks she wants, but can't seem to go more than a couple of days without seeing me. I don't know, it seems like reconciliation is becoming part of her vocabulary, a potential option. She seems to agree that she doesn't know what she wants. I don't want to get hung up on hope here, but...
So, the real takeaway is to continue the limbo. Don't finalize the divorce. Live seperated. Implement support and custody, even if it's not a legal agreement. Limit time together (funny, we got different advice about that, everyone's got a different opinion - add in the children's therapist, and that's another vector).
Well, essentially what everyone on this board has advised. I'm probably a source of some eye-rolling here. But I guess it's coming together now. Stop the cake-eating, focus on my life and the boys, go somewhat dark. Funny, we're doing this by agreement.
