Question

[awest1217]

H isn't trying to get back together. He sends me random texts to keep his control, or at least that is how I feel. Let's see...

Saturday, I text H to see if he could help me set up an itunes account. I didn't want to ruin the computer because his was signed in and I figured if he missed me that much, maybe this would be a good ice breaker because I would just ask how to get the computer switched to my account and be done with it. I called...no answer...I text him saying that I only called to get help with the itunes, but I would just figure it out on my own, and all I get back is "do you want me to come home?" WHAT!!?!?!?! That has nothing to do with the fact that I was calling to ask for some help with the computer and you couldn't answer the phone...you really miss me? So I text back that I had already answered that last night. A little later I asked him what was going on...and you guessed it, NOTHING

Last night I was a little fed up, so I did a no no and snooped by getting on his AIM. I can read what OW types, but not what H says back. Something about how they were fighting. Then he asks her how her cat is doing because she has been sick. WHAT AGAIN! S was sick last weekend and H knew about it because I put on FB how I was thankful for my mom and sister who came to help, and he still has not even once in the few texts I have gotten asked about S, but he asks her about her cat? Then he got mad because she said she wouldn't hang out today. To that she says "but ily anyway" ily = i love you. UCK!

Today I was debating texting H about our meeting because big surprise nothing about a time to meet. I decided to text him and said I hoped he enjoyed his weekend. I asked if he had come up with any dates yet to meet. Then ended I am really not looking forward to this meeting, but it is necessary. I wanted him to know that I am not trying super excited about having a R talk, but with things in my life financially, it is time. Trying to ease everything. That was at 4 pm it is now 3.5 hours later and still NOTHING! I am thinking about sending him the agenda then giving him a time to meet. I just hate this noncontact or contact when OW is not there. I think things are starting to fizzle on her end a little, but who knows. Either way he still needs a ton of help. I also might contact the friend that I contacted before just to see if they met because with my MIL saying he won't return her calls either, he isn't talking to anyone and that could lead to bad things.

Right now I am kind of missing having someone here. I have a busy week and weekend coming up, but after Saturday at 1 pm, my extra curricular activities are done for this year so that is a load off, however I need to get through this first. Then the week after is a year anniversary of H and OW starting the lying to me. There is a youth conference for church that H and I always go to. Last year H said he had too much work to do (renewing his license and wanting to write a play for church). H said he didn't want to go. We were already having some big problems so I went with S. Come to find out OW was at the house Friday night to eat Chinese, and Saturday to help H pick out glasses. He didn't tell me any of this until months later, although I knew something was up.

I need to somehow get through to H that we need to have this meeting, and the sad thing is that it will either happen with or without lawyers, but the problem I have with bringing in lawyers is I don't want a D. I want us to work out, and now I think H has fallen into a situational depression so I know he needs help, but at the same time he is a compulsive liar and master manipulator so I am trying to not get too much heart into this because it will be broken again and I can't do that. I will just keep trying to get H to meet. I told him Friday I wanted to meet by the end of the month which is a week from today so who knows. Just a lot of nothing.

I know it sounds bad, but really I am doing well. I think it is mostly not looking forward this week. Things are looking up and I am doing well emotionally, spiritually, physically (stomach still trying to fend off the sickness, but doing ok), and financially ok for now.

[ClingingToHope]

I don't know. You text H for help with the computer. Why?

You are pushing this meeting and he's not responding. You could be facing budget cuts or worse, no job, and you let him pay you when he wants and how much he wants.

You have patience I wouldn't have.

You don't want a D but say he is "compulsive liar and master manipulator."

You don't want to bring lawyers into it because you are worried he'll get visitation rights and yet you want things to work out.

I know I've been all over the place, but I'm wondering if you don't need to sit down and really look at the finances and what it is he brings to the equation.

I think you need to scare him straight and the only way to do that is to do something to force him to live up to his financial responsibilities. I don't know what those options are in Indiana.

[awest1217]

CTH - in IN, and more importantly the county we live in, just started last year that no divorce gets to court until an agreement has been made. Everything must be agreed with the lawyers/mediator, before we ever get to see a judge so ultimately what I am doing with the meeting is trying to hammer out the agreement now, start it now, and then if he continues not to change, and I get the money, I can file. One thing is H did pay child support this month and didn't have to, which means he has paid since October. The whole point of us meeting is so I can make the final financial decisions. If it goes to D, we will have things already discussed so I can decide if I should try to sell the house or something else. Kind of like you and upping the lease on the apartment, I can't make that decision until I know where we stand because of the mixed signals so that is the point of the meeting. Get one last chance, be solution-oriented, and end the meeting with a plan.

After posting last night, H texts me and asks me if I would let him come home right now? It was a long two hour time of texting back and forth where I said no and told him what he would have to do to come home and he said he agreed to what he would ahve to do, but it seemed like a lot to just come home. I added in a lot like wooing me back and stuff that could happen with him at home and probably would work better if he were at home because I would trust him more. I ultimately told him that he would have to cut out OW completely, start going back to church, and prove to me he can handle having friends without it becoming more. He then said he would never have friends again and I said that is stupid and I won't allow it. He then started to harp on "church" people and complaining about them so I just said I was one of them and let it go. I reiterated my three things to come back and the other stuff to continue improving (including MC and complete transparency of all his electronic devices), and he said I have been #1 in his life for some time and he hasn't talked or seen OW in weeks, but right then I was on his AIM and he was IMing her while saying he hadn't talked to her. I told him that if he really wants to come home he will have to sacrifice and put himself out there with possibly no hope of anything coming back in return. I need him to prove to me that he has changed because I don't want this to be another trial thing, but a forever thing and he has to prove it because I need to protect myself and S. I also said I am sealed up and he will have to carefully open me back up because I am not going to get hurt again. A lot went on and ultimately OW said love you and talk to you tomorrow. I left things at I am tired of being in limbo and for both of our sakes we need it to end so I want to have a date for a meeting by today. I want at that meeting what he wants to do from here on out. He knows what I am expecting and it is up to him now to make the choice, but a choice has to be made.

My biggest concern is the fact that he has to start paying rent next month so I think he just wants to come home partially so he doesn't pay rent. He did say a lot of stuff about how he misses me and how he has learned that being a family means sacrificing for the family. I don't know if I can trust him. I am scared. I am ok now with a D and although I don't want H to have visitation, I believe deep down if he wants a D he won't try for visitation because he doesn't want anything to do with me, but reconciling scares me. Funny how things have changed in the past few weeks, but I am scared of him not changing, and ultimately it is his house so he could come home and I can't stop him, but I don't think he would do that. He does know what i am expecting so if he wants to come home I guess he is willing to do that stuff so I should trust it, right?

[Lucky11too]

I don't know if I can trust him. I am scared. I am ok now with a D and although I don't want H to have visitation, I believe deep down if he wants a D he won't try for visitation because he doesn't want anything to do with me, but reconciling scares me. Funny how things have changed in the past few weeks, but I am scared of him not changing...

Wow, I could have written that. So true to my heart as well. I'm beginning to learn that reconciling is almost more scary then a D at this point b/c at least you know exactly what to expect with a D. I remember when H told me recently that he "could possibly see us working out", I felt like freaking out. It's what I want but it totally thru me back b/c I so fear him changing enough to get me back and then going right back to where we were. Definitely scary. But I guess that's the chance we take to save our M and our families. But anyways,very interesting. At least now he knows EXACTLY what he needs to do to come home. This is really his last chance b/c I can tell you're at the end of your rope and if he screws you again, it's D road. Definitely have your meeting so you can work out the deatils and show him that this is serious business - this is your life and S's life he's messing with and he needs to take it seriously too. I think you've got to trust him somewhat that if he agrees to come home it means he agrees with the circumstances of which it happens, but just be cautious too, since he continues to directly lie to you. Not cool that he said he hadn't talked to OW when he was sitting there talking to her at that very moment! Just take one step at a time. Start with this meeting and see what results that brings and then depending on that, you can pick your next course - hopefully a road that starts with MC and no OW! (but at least you'll be prepared if it goes the other way too.) =/

Oh, I had to snicker a bit on the part of H harping on church people. It’s just scary sometimes how similar these H’s are. H always tells me how he doesn’t want to go to church b/c church people are weird or hypocritical, or whatever other mean thing he can think of. Loved your response of the fact that you’re one of them. Have to keep that response in mind for next time. ;-)

[awest1217]

Lucky I completely agree with you. It is once again fear of the unknown. I think this would be a lot easier if it wasn't for the OW. She just won't go away. They are always "i miss you", and "ily". It drives me nuts! If he was just a WAS and said I want to come home I would say that it has to be for good and no leaving again, go to marriage counseling, etc., but with OW and the strong EA they are still having, it is just so hard because he sees nothing wrong with it. He says they are just friends and doesn't understand the problem, especially since OW's husband seems fine with the arrangement.

Either way so far no text from H about a meeting. I will probably try to call or text a little before dinner to get a date because I need to get this over with. I need to move on for my sake. The limbo with OW involved is just not ok anymore and there has to be a change. Honestly, the limbo isn't good for H either, and I really do think OW hasn't been around as much so he is lonely and misses me and S. It is just definitely scary and I am trying to not sound "motherly" or "teacher-like" with the boundaries, but I also want him to know they are boundaries for my life and if he wants to cross them that is fine, but I can't and won't follow anymore and that will mean D.

[awest1217]

I called H last night to get a date we could meet. He just said I don't want to meet, I want to come home. He sounded very sad and miserable. I said I would still like to meet and he said why so that started a whole 1 hour conversation (during which S overflowed the sink...joys of a toddler ). It wasn't too harsh or anything, but very straight. I told him that we need to talk to make sure this isn't like October. He said he wants to come home because "I was right". He left because he thought he could do better without me and he can't. He said he can't live on his own, can't manage his finances, can't take care of a house, can't do anything. He said the reason we worked is because we both "knew our roles". I was the man and he was the woman. He doesn't ever make decisions and still doesn't being alone. I said that I had changed and don't want that life back. He said that he hadn't changed at all and won't ever change. He said he will give me all of his electronic devises and not have any friends ever because there is no one who will be his friend (except OW). I said I am not ok with that because I want a healthy relationship where H has friends and knows not to cross the line. I also said I still wouldn't trust that he isn't seeing or talking to OW because there are so many ways he could still see her. It is just crazy.

Finally I said that since he wants to come home we need to set a plan. Does he want to just jump in? Date for a while? Then he hung up on me and turned his phone off the rest of the night. I first e-mailed him to make sure his phone didn't die. Then once I figured out he had turned it off, I cried and cried. I think the last 3 weeks I have just pushed all those feelings of love down and let the anger cover them so I could make it through my day, but they all surfaced when he ignored me again. Before going to be, I sent him an e-mail stating what I want in a relationship because I have changed and my needs are different. I don't want to me the man and wife anymore. I want to be the wife and be treated like a girl. It kind of read like a greeting card or poem. I added things like wants to take me out to show me off, to doesn't lie to me, to many other things, but what I am most proud of is the ending line..."a husband who wants to come home not because he can't live alone, but because he can't live without me"

I really want to text him and ask him to dinner tonight or tomorrow because I still really want to have some direction in my life and move on. I am sure that isn't the best thing to do, but I don't want to wait another 3 weeks for him to contact me.

[Lucky11too]

A lot of good conversation there! But why did he hang up on you? It seems like a valid conversation to say yes, you want to come home (which he wants), so how do you want to do this? Was he just upset that you weren't gushing to have him home? I really like your last line in your email. It does seem like he wants to come home b/c he's lonely and wants someone to take care of him again, and you're right, if he's not there for you and his unconditional love for you, then that's going to spell diaster again. You did great (really clear and straight forward about what needs to happen) but I definitely don't think his argument helped him out much. Instead it continued to show how selfish he is - it's all about his needs! I don't know how long it takes these H's to grow up and learn selflessness, but they need to get this thru their heads and fast!

Regarding texting/calling him, maybe give it a couple of days to let it sink in and if you haven't heard from him by the end of the week, maybe invite him for dinner over the weekend. (and he still hasn't seen S in weeks either, huh?) I know you need some resolution and as long as he is wanting to come home, that kind of gives you the upper hand on this (power not to be abused but used gentle to open up some of these issues to hopefully come to a resolution).

I think it's good that you had a chance to let it all out last night. You have been so strong these past weeks, but I could tell you were also having to bottle up a lot of your feelings. Maybe letting them out can let you open up a bit more to H. You have been very straightforard on everything, but maybe in your next pass, it would be good to show him a little of your feelings again to let him know you do still care. That's a fine line though - you need to remain firm enough so that he takes you and this situation seriously, but sensitive enough to show your love for him. But I don't know, the things you are asking for and should expect from him aren't impossible things, so I just hope he really thinks about what you said last night in your conversation and email and takes it to heart.

[awest1217]

H still has not seen S at all, and even in our conversation last night, it was all about H, but he still never asked about S. I don't get it. Anyway, we are going to have dinner tomorrow, and I told H I want from him a plan on coming home. We have discussed what I expect and so I am not going to say anything about that anymore. I know in DB it says to be cautious if WAS comes home unexpectedly (although I knew it would happen around now because he doesn't want to pay rent) but I believe it says to let them come home. Everything I have read says that you really can't work on a marriage until both parties are in the same house. I agree because I don't trust him at all, and at least at the house I could begin to trust him. He knows the boundaries so I am going to not talk about them again for a little bit and only ask if he wants to go to my counselor or his. It doesn't matter to me, I just want to start going. He seems resistant now, but like DB says, he is going to grieve the loss of OW (although I don't understand it, it is still somethign I have to understand) so I am going to try to give him some space, be kind and see where things go.

I am very scared and need to pray a lot, but the only thing that gives me hope is Christmas. We had such a good time at Christmas that if H can cut out OW and really change just that part of him, I believe we can work because we had such a great time. Now on to the next hard step.

I think whenever he does come back, that day, I want to start reading "Love Dare" again and put that into action again. I read it over the summer and I think that it will remind me to be kind and show love to H and through it all hopefully with time, the wounds will heal and never be opened again.

[LolaL]

I think you have some positive motivation there. But I do want to caution you on the Love Dare. I saw the movie...can't remember the name of it. I would suggest waiting a bit before you delve head first into doing this, because you also don't want to come on too strong.

[nikblondiew]

"Fireproof" - name of movie