Looking for Advice

[gutwrenching]

It sounds like you are not getting transparency, did she agree to totally clean?
If not, I bet she is still cake eating with OM.

Oh I bet she is cake eating. I want to believe her but cannot. I think the communication has slowed way down, but this guy is something else. Now that we all know this a military sitch, this guy is about to go be a head lawyer at an installation this summer...I still can't believe the risk...adultery is not legal in the military, his career could get flushed and he could get in huge trouble over this (not to mention he has W and 3 kids). I honestly believe he is feeding her the methods they use to go deeper undercover...he must feel invincible. And there is the fact that he is going to be commuting home on weekends to his W/kids and living a couple of hours away...I'm sure this is part of his grand plan.
The male military person inside of me would like to take him down so bad...but I continue to listen to the others and that he is beneath me and I have to let go and accept things.

[gutwrenching]

GW,

I don't see it now, but I think it was in your post that you asked if you should continue saying good morning and good night and other little niceties. Without a doubt, yes. Once you lose those things it is almost impossible to bring them back. Keep all the niceties you can in your relationship.

Thanks Lotus - yes it was me. And now that you put it that way, I really see what you mean. I had hugs goodbye for a week, then lost them, and don't see them coming back. I also lost being able to ask her how she slept the night before, she very firmly told me to ask her that anymore.

So I will continue to initiate. I normally wait just a little bit, realize she isn't going to say something, and I do anyways. Sometimes I get a friendly reply back, other times (like last night) grumpy.

[gutwrenching]

One more thing I forgot to post - W told me last night that she hopes one day to be able to be friends again with OM and e-mail him occassionally. She realizes the e-mails, texts, and calls got way out of control, but the experience they went thru in a combat zone built a friendship that she hopes to have again some day. All I did was validate that I could understand why she would feel that way. I had no idea how to respond to that one.

[Deep]

Hi GW, hope you won't mind me popping in on a different tangent. I skimmed through the last 5 pages or so and a couple of things popped out to me.

Whatever approach the vets here have on dealing with WAS, there a few things that seem to be generally agreed upon. 1 of them is to hold onto your nuts, self-respect, whatever you may choose to call it. Others include setting boundaries with consequences, being the best you you can be - someone anyone would LOVE to be M to, and LIVING that (it's not enough to just act like it, you gotta believe it, and live it). Pretty basic right?

This is not a swipe at you, but I really think you need to take a step back and re-read your own thread. How do you think you sound? Not very attractive at best, pathetic at worst. You seem weak, waffling, indecisive, letting fear and W's reaction rule most of your actions, unwilling to confront some violations of boundaries etc.

Be the man you need to be, that she neds you to be, and leave it to God whether she has the discernment to see reality over time. I feel your pain and I do feel for you.

Look, in my own sitch, there was a time when my W was convinced she felt absolutely nothing for me and did not want a future of feeling nothing for the man she was gonan be with. Stupidly, I thought I was being strong when I told her it would definitely come back, that we can both work at it, that we were such soulmates.

These are really just my own personal views and I could be 100% off but I think you could include some of the following in future communications (depending on decisions you may take on your M). I think tough love and implementing some of the Gucci / Robx approaches will help.

- Restate your boundaries to W. Tell her the onus is on HER to convince you because she strayed. Ignore the blame and angst that will come your way. Just state the tough truth. Say you KNOW she had lied and you will not tolerate being lied to and full and total exposure will be a natural consequence in future.
- Ask for a a detailed transparency plan.
- Tell W you want the M and family. You will not however be the supplicant or a doormat and have no interest in being with anyone who feels nothing for you. Her current fog is due to OM and confusion and you want to see her make the effort to come out of it. You are not in this M to be a room-mate or co-parent - you can do that as effectively divorced.
- Create doubt and crisis in her mind. Give her a strong version of the Robx "I get it" spiel. Tell her you are starting to understand how she feels because frankly, you are not sure how you feel about her any more either. Her behaviour and disrespect makes her extremely unattractive.

Drop the rope - stop obsessing about whether what you do could push her away / drive her towards OM. I'm not saying be mean - just stand up for what is right, for what you believe in for your M, and let her make her own decisions and take the consequences, point being that you MUST live as a person willing to let her take the full brunt of her choices.

Edit: Oh, and about OM. Just shake your head disbelievingly at her and tell her she is beyond disrespectful to even suggest that at all. I'm sure if it's all that innocent, she would have no problem in full expsoure of the EA and that future contact to OMW, OM family, your family, and the work environment.

[gutwrenching]

Deep - thanks for the time and the feedback. I'm not going to argue or deny. I can tell you that tonight I am just tired. I can't even deeply think about this. I will, I will go back and re-read and I appreciate all the advice, I have thick skin. More later. Open to others thoughts too

[gutwrenching]

I didn't think I'd have anything worth posting tonight, then W throws me a curve ball. I don't know what to think of it and really am not interested tonight in even trying to analyze.
Right before she heads to the basement to work, she asks if I was the job advertised in Alabama. I said yes and there was only one job. And she says something to the effect that she could do that job. Hmmm...I can tell she's fishing for a reaction...not going to give her one. I simply said what about the kids. She said they'd have to stay with one of us...and you wouldn't have time if you got that job in Hawaii. Ah ha, that is what she is fishing for...so I simply said "I don't want to be away from my kids, I'd find a way to make it work"

Then she mumbles something about with the data I have from the last couple of months that I probably have already plotted something. I nicely said you already know how I feel about things, I am not plotting anything right now. She said she didn't believe me and I said ok, I am telling the truth, believe what you want.

This is the first time she has ever brought something like this up and really kind of odd for her to start a talk about the future like that.

I suspect it was a test, and I wasn't going to back down or appear wishy washy on this subject.

Other than that, I'm tired. I just want to get past today and get back on track tomorrow.

[rockedworld]

GW, don't let her bait you into anything like that... and good job that you didn't.
Stand your ground. Say as little as possible. And keep DBing. Deep made some very good points I think you should give a lot of thought to.
Hope you feel stronger today and had a good sleep!

[gutwrenching]

Rocked - I was hoping I did ok on that one, glad to hear you think I did. The only thing I forgot to add was after my response that I hadn't plotted anything she knew what I thought of the future, she claimed she hadn't plotted anything yet either. She said she doesn't know anything about that and when she needs to know about it, she'll research on the internet. All I said was yes that is easy to do these days.

Extremely busy day and weekend. Right now, I'm just focused on making it thru today and the weekend and staying on track. I will reflect on deep's post when I get a chance, initially, I like it, but don't think we need another big talk of us and the future right now...so timing could be key. just intial thougs without really looking hard at it. Tomorrow night we just got told by another couple that they made dinner reservations somewhere for the 4 of us, find a sitter for the kids. No idea where that one came from. Sunday is packed with stuff.

Others - please let me know what you think about Deep's post.

I am in much better spirits today, got some good sleep, good workout (yes together with W) this morning. Sitch remains cordial at the house/work, no real change.

Trying to see if I can find an agle to get out of the Hawaii job...working that one today among everythihg else. Right now I see me leaving here in 30 days being a real bad thing for future hope of our M. I would be thousands of miles away, working my tail off, W would be forced into some decisions real soon (and I think I know what the answer would be today--not what I want), and the EA would most certainly ratchet up to full scale again with no worries about hiding it from me.

[rr22]

The scary thing about your wife's EA is that it seems she doesn't care at all about the kids. Hopefully she will consider IC, yet in IC she can also get on a track of obsessing about not getting her needs met romantically. Depends if you think she is a secret love or romance junkie or just grew depressed or disillusioned and needy and then got targeted by this guy. If she is a love junkie, she will have to solve that for herself or be chasing it the rest of her life. I would be wary of staying involved with someone whose self esteem needs were met through flirting. Did she flirt or need a lot of male attention in the past? Did she have low self esteem? Or does she just act like you let her down and blame her EA on you? I'm not sure how you would get a sense if she's being honest with you or herself.

[gutwrenching]

R22 - let me answer your questions and then please let me know what you think.
- She does care about the kids, that has changed. She is genuinely upset/bothered/unhappy with her time with the kids but she is so addicted to work right now + the EA that for some reason she can't make herself give more time. Then she feels bad about it. It isn't all EA, there is some truth about her being addicted to work, it is combo of the two.
- She has never been a flirtatious person and she has not needed male attention in the past. She has not been flirtatious since the long distance EA started either.
- Her self esteem is a little low but not rock bottom low, a little lower than it should be, but not real bad
- She blames me that I let her down, she got angry, got tired, decided to see if she deserved better and could do better and bam, here is the OM while I am not around
- She might be somewhat of a secret romance junkie - I don't know - I didn't fill that need enough to know if she needs a little or is a junkie. I realize that now

Whether or not she is being honest with me about the EA, who knows. Rest of my answers are from me, from knowing my W over the years, I didn't completely ignore her like she paints the picture these days.

So..what do you think/recommend?