H suddenly moved out 10 days ago...I'm devastated

[flowmom]

Here is what you do... forget for THREE minutes that you are a mother and a wife. Look in the mirror and say out loud.. I am a WOMAN. W-O-M-A-N. Got it, self? WOMAN. I am not just a person that raises children and tends house and is a wife. I am a WOMAN.

You're right, it's a part of myself that I've lost. And after years of being sexually rejected by my H and treated like I'm invisible by the male gender, I'm trying to figure out what it means for me to be a woman right now. I recently read that only 4% of women have had over 21 sexual partners. I am in the 4% club but my self-esteem is so low right now that I can't even imagine flirting.

[CityGirl]

Don't take too much time figuring it out. Just do one little thing.

Think of it this way... you are able to be a wife and mom because you *are* a woman.

It doesn't have to be for somebody (your H, another male) but just for you. Something that *you* know that maybe nobody else will ever know but it gives you a sense of being a woman and nothing else.

Nobody is going to knock on your door and offer you a basket of self esteem (wouldn't that be great?!). Many women here can relate to feeling lower than dirt and uglier than sin when going through such an experience. It's a bond we all share.

Don't worry about flirting right now, just do something that will remind you for the rest of the day you are a woman first.

[flowmom]

Yesterday was really hard. The kids needed dentist appts, so H and I took them together and that involved spending 2 hours sitting side by side in the car (long story why, boring). Initially I made a bit of conversation and tried to keep it light. Then when he stopped talking so did I. I just sat there and tried to think of positive things. Some of it was thinking about good times we had together. It hit me really hard last night, just desperately wanting him back.

H just started using facebook a couple of days ago and I was looking in on him last night. I'm not friended but he hasn't set his privacy settings properly and I can see all of his "friends". I have no clue who most of the women are and of course I was torturing myself imagining H flirting with and dating sexy young things. H is a hardbody and admired in his business/sport...he will have no problem finding the ego boost that he wants right now. I have to stop doing this to myself. I justified it as trying to get info about whether an OW is involved.

This morning I did set a boundary with H. The children have been getting up really early, I think because they are on hyper-alert since the separation. S started talking about nightmares recently (never happened before) and I asked H to stop reading Harry Potter to him because I think that S is too sensitive for that, esp in this situation. H wasn't happy about it even though I found a different series that S's teacher had recommended. Anyway this morning I told H that S had told me that he woke up early and came in to snuggle with me because it made him feel safer against the monsters. H dismissively told me that that was my "hobby horse" and that S was just trying to manipulate me. I firmly said that my parenting concerns are *not* "hobby horses" and "you can respectfully disagree with me but it's not OK to talk to me like that". To me coparenting in this situation means taking seriously the signs of stress that the children are showing, but I guess H doesn't want to fully acknowledge the consequences of his actions.

[CityGirl]

Very good on the co-parenting exchange.

You are right, your H doesn't want to acknowledge the consequences of his actions. He might never do that hence the reason your personal boundaries are so important.

About the Facebook page... you learned what made things worse for you (looking at his page) so stop doing it. If you are looking or not the same things will be there so why drive yourself crazy wondering if you are not able to handle it at this time?

[flowmom]

OK, here's a GAL update.

I had this fantasy of going to an intimate jazz bar with a male friend, someone who would make me feel good. I haven't done things like that for over 6 years. Then I was shocked to realize that every man I know is both a husband and father. Then I remembered a male friend who I had some "interludes" with 20 years ago who I haven't seen much of since becoming a wife and mother. I thought I'd reach out to him on facebook. He seemed happy to hear from me and suggested that we get together for coffee, drinks, or lunch. He even suggested going to the exact jazz bar that I had in mind in my fantasy! I decided it was meant to be and said yes. He is a husband (I assume) and a father, so I wouldn't be looking to flirt or anything. I just want to be with someone who doesn't see me in my current somewhat pathetic context. I want to go on a pseudo-"date" with no risk of it going anywhere.

So here's the question. Do I ask a friend to babysit my kids and not even mention it to H? Or do I ask H to look after the kids (at my home) while I "go out"? It only seems fair that I should have some freedom to go out into the world after the kids are asleep. And it would be a 180 because I never used to go out at night because H refused to learn how to comfort the children when they woke at night (which happened/happens a lot -- they are terrible sleepers). On the other hand, I wouldn't want it to look like I'm trying to make him jealous or play mindgames. I'm doing this for me, not to manipulate him. Thoughts?

[Kettricken]

I had this fantasy of going to an intimate jazz bar with a male friend, someone who would make me feel good. I haven't done things like that for over 6 years. Then I was shocked to realize that every man I know is both a husband and father. Then I remembered a male friend who I had some "interludes" with 20 years ago who I haven't seen much of since becoming a wife and mother. I thought I'd reach out to him on facebook. He seemed happy to hear from me and suggested that we get together for coffee, drinks, or lunch. He even suggested going to the exact jazz bar that I had in mind in my fantasy! I decided it was meant to be and said yes. He is a husband (I assume) and a father, so I wouldn't be looking to flirt or anything. I just want to be with someone who doesn't see me in my current somewhat pathetic context. I want to go on a pseudo-"date" with no risk of it going anywhere.

Match, meet fuse.

This, IMHO, is a disaster about to happen. You don't even know for sure if this gentleman is married and you're planning to go on a "fantasy" date at an "intimate" jazz bar with him, alone, and you think there's "no risk of it going anywhere"??????? Because you're "not looking to flirt"?

Most affairs start from much *less* combustible scenarios than that one.

GAL doesn't mean finding a fresh source for external validation. It means doing things that allow you to validate yourself as a well-rounded individual in your own right. That may include going out and looking hot, but not exclusively that, for sure. I just think you're playing with fire here.

[flowmom]

This, IMHO, is a disaster about to happen. You don't even know for sure if this gentleman is married and you're planning to go on a "fantasy" date at an "intimate" jazz bar with him, alone, and you think there's "no risk of it going anywhere"??????? Because you're "not looking to flirt"?

Just to clarify, I'm assuming that he's married and my intentions are platonic only (as are his I assume). Even if he wasn't married, I wouldn't want anything to happen. I've had no interest in other men in the 17 years that I've been with H (except that I used to get crushes on helicopter pilots while on work assignments, but that was just silliness )

GAL doesn't mean finding a fresh source for external validation. It means doing things that allow you to validate yourself as a well-rounded individual in your own right. That may include going out and looking hot, but not exclusively that, for sure.

Again to clarify, I'm not planning to go and "look hot". I want to listen to jazz and I don't want to go by myself. Going out to listen to some jazz is something that I indentified as something I'd like to do to GAL. If I went alone I'd probably just feel sorry for myself. And I don't want to go with someone who feels sorry for me or who is trying to be "supportive".

Reading back on my post I could see how it could be interpreted the way that you did. I think it's partly my being out of practice with even doing normal grownup things that I made it sound more suggestive that it is.

[WhatNow]

WHOA! I have to chime in here!!!

Do I have this right? You are going to a jazz club with a man who may be married w/kids???? Will his wife be there?? If not, does she know? How do you think she feels about her husband going on a date??? Put yourself back in time a few years and in her shoes.... if it were your H? Inappropriate.eh?

Why don't you try going alone and maybe meeting new friends to share your interest? You WILL find a way to live, with integrity.

[flowmom]

Do I have this right? You are going to a jazz club with a man who may be married w/kids???? Will his wife be there?? If not, does she know? How do you think she feels about her husband going on a date??? Put yourself back in time a few years and in her shoes.... if it were your H?

I'm assuming that he would tell her. And I'm assuming that he wouldn't do anything that would upset her. My H has spent time with other women platonically, and I wasn't worried about it. Among my peers, it's not automatically inappropriate for married people to be friends with other married people or do things together. I know I wrote "date", but I meant that in a tongue-in-cheek way, not seriously.

[mnt_dreams]

I think this is a 180 and a good step towards GAL, which means doing things you used to enjoy (like listening to jazz) and doing something just for yourself. I suspect it might remind you of how you used to be before the kids took up so much time and energy as well?

But I think you need to clarify with your old friend that going out to listen to jazz isn't going to cause a problem for anyone he may have waiting at home (just shoot him a msg on FB) and then you'll know. You're making some assumptions and it would be better to know before you go out.

So, if it's not a problem b/c he's either unattached or he reassures you it's not an issue and it's just catching up with an old friend, I think you should go because it will be great for your confidence, and independence.

As far as H watching the kids, my ex and I always gave each other the first right of refusal. Let him know you have plans (and be vague... I'm going to see an old friend... no one you'd know... etc) and you wanted to see if he wanted time with the kids first. If not, you'll get a sitter - either way, no big deal. Be casual, confident! And have fun!