I simply meant even during the dark times of marriage some couples are able to somewhat communicate in a productive manner. Some couples never really develop healthy communication and some try *really* hard but realize after the fact they were trying without skills or tools.
Since the moment I met my H he has ALWAYS had the outlook "once I decide something I won't change my mind". He approaches the big and small parts of life that way. When he said that about ending our marriage I should have known it was 110% over because that is simply how he operates. Knowing that about my husband I should have filed for the divorce the day after he announced the marriage was over because once he decides something that is how it will be. There was no limbo with him, no "lets wait and see"... it's just how he is.
I read about other WAS and honestly, the LBS seems to be in decent shape as far as a more positive outcome because the WAS, while hurt/confused/engaging in bad behavior is horrible for a while, some do actually take the time to step back.
That is what I meant by "right" - personality (IMO of course) plays a huge roll.
It also comes down to personal responsibility. The LBS at first takes all the blame and all the criticism that the WAS heaps on them and takes it as gospel. We then wade through all the BS and find out what really was our fault and what wasn't.
The WAS continues to live their life of denial that they are the innocent "victims". Without changing anything in their lives they end up repeating the same mistakes with their new R.
It's not until the WAS realizes that they are also at fault do they truly show remorse for any and all the pain that they've caused.
It's amazing to see how many M on here that have R have that lightbulb moment on the part of the WAS, where they stop and realize that "hey, I'm the one whose messed up here!" And then they end up being totally remorseful.
Sadly not all of them get to that point.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Very wise words, Stuck. I think that is what I was trying to say except my version was rather garbled.
Many WAS simply never get to the point of actually taking a personal inventory or realizing they did contribute to the demise of the marriage and they are not the victim. As much as we would like for it to happen it simply does not. My H has felt no consequences at all other than financial and he will only feel that for a few years. Other than that he is fine.
Honestly, while 95% of the time I feel I am in a decent place when that 5% of "ick" hits I feel rage coursing through my body with the fallout I still deal with. He goes to work, hangs with his friends, has OW and goes about his day without a care in the world. He surrounds himself with people (he always has) that validate every move he makes. I honestly think I am the first person in my H's life that has EVER stood up to him.
I do agree that many LBS take the brunt of the blame thinking it will help. In my case I refused. If my H is telling me the truth and me being diagnosed with lupus was the turning point for him I simply REFUSE to take any blame for that. I certainly did NOT want to find out I had a disease and pardon me for inconveniencing HIM. My god.
I have to believe, simply because WAS are human (maybe? lol!) at some point they have to feel *something* even if they never share it or act on it. Even the WAS deep in an affair on some level has to know, even for a second, that the situation is not good.
Pain hits you at odd times. I wonder if 5 or 10 years from now if my H will ever just stop and think... holy sh*t, I really made a mess of things and how I handled them. Sadly, most WAS fail to realize they have a very soft and safe place to land. It is just a very, very life altering experience for anybody and everybody involved.
I have to disagree. Validation for stealing, manipulation and putting another human being in danger should not be validated. Emotional abuse should not be validated. All of those 'things' are choices and they are the wrong ones when you are ending a marriage.
If you (general you) feels leaving a marriage is their only choice, well, not much to say. Leaving a marriage is one thing.. stealing from jointly earned funds, taking assets that do not belong to you and behaving in an emotionally abusive way should not be validated. I know this because I validated this for a LONG time. Boundaries are needed at that point, not validation.
Thanks to everyone for your invaluable comments and input so far. Despite the great discussion we've got going on here, I'm not confident this thread is headed where I was looking for it to go when I started it.
While each situation and couple is indeed different, and no matter what tips or strategies are used things might still not work out like we would hope, I was actually hoping those that have a WAS would come in to post specific things that they've done to get even the smallest positive reaction or sign from their WAS...even if they're still DB'ing or in the end they still ended up getting divorced.
For those LBS's keeping a solution journal and keeping track of what they are trying and what works as is suggested in Michele's books, this should be fairly easy to pinpoint.
I would also appreciate the WAS's input on specific things that caused them to react positively to their LBS, even if it was just a single isolated incident and they are still wanting to or still ended up divorcing their LBS.
Even though everyones situation is different, knowing what others successfully tried in combination with their intimate knowledge of ther own situation could generate similar but situation specific ideas for other LBS's.
Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to read here and offer insight. It is much appreciated.
nsw1222, I really like your idea of this type of thread. I have a WAS (H), and would love to hear about some successful techniques that others have used. I know that every couple is different, but I think some of the positives that LBS have seen, could help others.
One positive that I seen with my H, was one night when I came home (we are separated, but he spends his time with the kids at our house while I go out) I simply said, “Hi, how are you” and then went about my business. He responded with “Hey baby”. I didn’t think anything of it; I assumed it was just habit for him to say that. Then when he left, he patted me on the head. It was an affection pat, and made me feel very good. That was almost 3 weeks ago, and unless I’m missing them, I haven’t seen any other positive signs. In fact, I think it’s gotten worse, but I also haven’t been very good and walking away from the R talk. Right now, I’m planning on just trying to be really nice and friendly and make it an effort to not be trapped into R talk for now.
My only concern is that he seems to be moving so fast. He wants to sale the house, and keeps talking about getting a lawyer for the D. I wish I could figure out a technique that would get him to slow down; we’ve only been separated for 7 weeks.
Together 16 years Married 12 years Me 36 H 34 D9 & S6 Separated 12/3/09 Confirmed A 1/25/10 Exposed A 1/26/10 H hired L, but not filed yet 1/27/10
I have to disagree. Validation for stealing, manipulation and putting another human being in danger should not be validated. Emotional abuse should not be validated. All of those 'things' are choices and they are the wrong ones when you are ending a marriage.
If you (general you) feels leaving a marriage is their only choice, well, not much to say. Leaving a marriage is one thing.. stealing from jointly earned funds, taking assets that do not belong to you and behaving in an emotionally abusive way should not be validated. I know this because I validated this for a LONG time. Boundaries are needed at that point, not validation.
You do not understand me.
I understand that.
What I ment was that the word validate means substantiate or in its pure meaning confirm.
To me the easier path is to admint ones mistakes and correct them. Learn and adapt. I have stated this in my posts here and in life. To walk away is a more difficult path to take.
Nothing more.
Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul. unconditional love is awesome!
One positive that I seen with my H, was one night when I came home (we are separated, but he spends his time with the kids at our house while I go out) I simply said, “Hi, how are you” and then went about my business. He responded with “Hey baby”. I didn’t think anything of it; I assumed it was just habit for him to say that. Then when he left, he patted me on the head. It was an affection pat, and made me feel very good.
thanks for your input mb...this is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for for us in this thread. Even though its a small thing...its something.
I've found that refraining from engaging my SO in constant talk about our relationship, projecting a light hearted and happy attitude (on the outside), and being nice to my SO has paid off to some degree, unless I'm misreading the signs or over valuing them. When she picks up our daughter she comes in and sits down more as opposed to just getting her and taking off, and when she drives off she has been waving to me.
Someone elsewhere pointed out that she may be acting this way as a "friends for the sake of our daughter". While that's possible...even likely...I dont know because I cant and shouldnt ask "why are you being nice to me?". questions like that are likely to instantly throw up the emotional wall that drove us to this point in the first place.
