It's a tough time you are living through and yes, time is warped, the wounds are raw but most of all you just don't know what is going to happen next ... and that is a mighty disempowering feeling.
Giving your wife an ultimatum (which I presume is what you are referring to when you talk about shaking things up or mentioning the D word) may give you a sense of being more in control of what's happening for you and to you. I completely get that.
Thing is, we only ever con ourselves that we do know what is going to happen next. When things are going well in our lives, when all the square pieces are in the square holes and the round pieces are in the round holes life goes on and we generally know what we are going to get from day to day. Truth of it is however that we never really know what's going to happen. As my mum always says "you could fall under a bus tomorrow." Seems to me, it's those times that you do fall-under-the-bus that you get to decide what the truely important things are in your life.
On the changing jobs/moving issues. There are at least two (probably many) schools of thought - and to be honest in your shoes I'd be very relucatant to toss in the job I was trained for to move to the place my partner ran away to - but I hear what my learnered friends are saying about being close to your kids.
I actually think these are two separate issues.
1. Your wife and children are currently living 4 hours away. That's not OK in relation to the opportunity you have to spend time with your children. If you do go the formal separation route you guys will have to come up with how to manage that. I don't know what the rules are where you live, but where I live one parent can't make unilateral decisions about where children reside ... it needs to be negotiated in the best interests of the children. If you say your wife isn't working now why is she there (I understood she moved there for a job? or philanthropic opportunity?) ?
Quite apart from what happens with your job or your marriage - it's clear that the current arrangement isn't great for you or the kids. I agree with you that it's almost inevitable that this status quo is dysfunctional to maintain.
Of course the risk of you moving to where your wife is, particularly for a down-graded job, is that she will consider it pursing, you'll still be living separately, so will presumably only have your kids a couple of nights during the week and every second weekend at best. Also not a great arrangement (although much better than what you currently have).
I agree with you that you probably do need to get some legal advice about what your rights and obligations are in the current situation and what's possible in the medium and longer term. Not getting that type of advice is analogous to noticing a mole changing shape or colour and not talking to your GP. No?
2. Your job. You are presumably the major income earner in the family? You are presumably supporting your family and two households. You need to rationally consider if that's sustainable in the longer term. If it's not you do have to make some decisions.
Bradley I was a walk away-wife (not proud of it) and I didn't understand what I was giving away until my xH got sick of my drama and sincerely moved on with his life. It was too late for us. I've got to tell you though that his compromises and attempts at doing whatever he thought I wanted were not the catalyst for me realising what I'd done. His resolve when he moved on galvanised me into action.
This pain doesn't last forever, it just feels like it right now.
Keep putting one foot in front of another, listen to your heart, but use your head. If your wife is in MLC or life transition or whatever words we use to describe her current crisis you may need to be the grown-up and that may mean making some decisions to ensure that when you guys do reconcile down the track you still have a great relationship with your kids, you do have satisfying employment to sustain you all and your wife still knows you are a man she can count on.
For what it's worth ....
V
V
Never make someone a priority, who makes you an option.
I can hear your australian accent through your post... kindof cool.
I also just got the double meaning of your "name". Walking... WAW.... but also relating to the australian "walkabout"? or just one meaning.
You are on the money with everything you wrote about. I am actually the ONLY breadwinner in the family... I've set her up. she can live her life up there happy as can be, doing what she wants to do.
I do feel that resolving to move on would potentially be the real wake up call for her-- which in some ways goes against what many people say here (that MLC needs to take its own time course). In your case it sounds as though it did wake you up a bit... so I'm not sure which is true-- unless you were not actually mlc or in crisis and were going through something else....
of course that is not the point-- to shake her up. right?
I did not bring up the D to manipulate her or shake her up or gain control of the situation. I am/was approaching the point your husband did. I guess I need to resolve myself to some sort of a path... sortof the sawshank get busy livin or get busy dyin thing.
yes... I do feel at times I need to be the grown up here for sure.
I do feel that resolving to move on would potentially be the real wake up call for her-- which in some ways goes against what many people say here (that MLC needs to take its own time course). In your case it sounds as though it did wake you up a bit... so I'm not sure which is true-- unless you were not actually mlc or in crisis and were going through something else....
It will only wake her up if she is ready to wake up.
Originally Posted By: bradley11
yes... I do feel at times I need to be the grown up here for sure.
This is completely true. You do need to be the grown up. Especially if this is a life crisis you are dealing with. Grown ups take the time to look at things and make decisions that are not based only in emotion.
B—
Do you want a D? Can you look in the mirror and into the eyes of your children and say, I have done all that I can to save this, and there is nothing more I can do? And have not regrets, not sadness, but regrets about the whole thing?
You have only been at this seven months. During those seven months, what have you done to grow, to learn, to become a man that your W would want to come home to?
That any woman would want to come home to?
Because to be honest, I am not seeing it. I see ego, anger, self-righteousness, more ego, control, self pity, and some smugness. You have accomplished a lot and you have a right to be proud. That I will not deny. But does it make you the end all be all of men? Not even close.
I am going to bet you posted to Jack specifically not only because he has a restored M but because he too has ego. Or at least what comes across as ego (sorry Jack :))But he has walked a road that you have only barely begun. He is not the same man now that he was when he first started posting here. It is evident in his posts.
You say you have sympathy for your W. But do you have empathy?
You say you understand how you both got where you are? On some degree, yes I am sure you do, the details. But it sounds to me like you would like her to just put aside all of her feelings as past, and just begin a new. That, is not always so easy.
What I bet you absolutely do not realize, is that all of those years you were off doing your training, she was at home. She was the one taking care of you, your house, your kids, your life. Waiting for you. WAITING FOR YOU. Alone. Married but alone. Married to the father of her children, but a single parent. She did this for nine years and you can’t even do this for seven months?
Just because you can’t understand what your W is going through doesn’t mean she isn’t going through something. You could try to understand the underlying things, depression, anger, confusion. It doesn’t happen quickly that understanding, but I haven’t really even seen you try to do any of that. Because you are too worried about how you feel. And about what is important or necessary for Bradley to have the life that HE envisioned.
Is how you feel important? Yes it is. But not any more important that how she feels and what she is going through. Maybe not even as important if you understood.
Last edited by cat04; 01/21/1012:38 PM.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
Do you want a D? Can you look in the mirror and into the eyes of your children and say, I have done all that I can to save this, and there is nothing more I can do? And have not regrets, not sadness, but regrets about the whole thing?
You have only been at this seven months. During those seven months, what have you done to grow, to learn, to become a man that your W would want to come home to?
That any woman would want to come home to?
Because to be honest, I am not seeing it. I see ego, anger, self-righteousness, more ego, control, self pity, and some smugness. You have accomplished a lot and you have a right to be proud. That I will not deny. But does it make you the end all be all of men? Not even close.
Cat. I cannot disagree with anything you are saying here. You are right about all of it.
and no. Absolutely not. I do not want a D.
as for empathy for my wife... its hard because she is so remote, both physically and emotionally-- that I know she is in pain but I do not know why.
I do not know if it is because she wants to be with another man and the guilt is killing her that she is destroying the family.
Or if she is really going through a major crisis (I believe it is this.. and OM still may be a factor) where she has no self esteem, no self--- for this I have bouts of empathy... yes.
Perhaps none of that matters... but that she is in pain.
but for the most part, you are completely right. I am focused on me and everything I have lost. how I thought I played by the rules to get the Life I wanted and at the end of the game they said, "sorry... too bad so sad". yes. I am very much stuck in my self pity. missing my wife, my kids.. hugs... love, happiness. I am stuck there.
as for what I have done to grow and learn.. again. you are right. I've read a few books.. read a lot on this web site to understand MLC.. but get mired down in my own self pity for the most part.
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What I bet you absolutely do not realize, is that all of those years you were off doing your training, she was at home. She was the one taking care of you, your house, your kids, your life. Waiting for you. WAITING FOR YOU. Alone. Married but alone. Married to the father of her children, but a single parent. She did this for nine years and you can’t even do this for seven months?
this is the one thing, I ABSOLUTELY do realize. completely. and it is what haunts me the most. why during all those years I didn't tend to her better... love her more.. I don't know...
and yes. I'd like her to put aside her feelings from the past... and understand how hard and maybe impossible that is.
I have tried to understand what she is going through. I have tried to give her the space and time she needed... but I have not done as good a job with that obviously as I could.
this morning she sounded terrible. She was going to be coming down tomorrow to bring the boys. I said I can come up and get them and give you a few days to decompress. I said, "would you like that" and she said, "I have no opinion. my opinion does not matter. As I said,
I have not read your whole thread, so I don't know the whole sitch, but it sounds to me like you and your wife might get a lot out of a Retrouvaille weekend. From what I've read, it sounds like your wife is depressed and feels misunderstood. And you are not able to communicate well with her.
Have you looked into Retrouvaille? They offer couples weekends all over the world. There are follow-up sessions, usually on Sundays, and I know that would be difficult since you are not living near her. But just doing the weekend can be very valuable. It is a program led by couples who have been through the miseries of unhappy marriages and who solved their problems through Retrouvaille. They teach effective communication techniques that break through the backlog of hurt feelings and the walls that people have built up. The rest is up to you, to use the technique and work with your spouse, to understand and empathize with each other. For information, check the website, www.helpourmarriage.org. And there is more information on a thread in Piecing called "Retrouvaille Means Change", (really retrouvaille means rediscovery, but you get there by changing how you relate to each other).
Cat. I cannot disagree with anything you are saying here. You are right about all of it.
So, what can YOU do about this......and I don't mean your marriage....I mean YOU ?
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but for the most part, you are completely right. I am focused on me and everything I have lost. how I thought I played by the rules to get the Life I wanted and at the end of the game they said, "sorry... too bad so sad". yes. I am very much stuck in my self pity. missing my wife, my kids.. hugs... love, happiness. I am stuck there.
That is NOT the answer....
The only thing you can control is you.
You admit that there were things you could have done differently throughout the relationship ?
What steps are you taking for YOU to fix that now, so that you aren't back here in five years, wondering what the flip happened AGAIN ?
When change is spoken of here, on this forum, nobody means change as in using your lob wedge instead of your pitching wedge. What is spoken of is true change, the kind of changes that leave you sad, angry as hell, happy, then rinse and repeat. They are LIFE CHANGES.....That leave YOU...A better man, friend, father, and maybe....husband.
These changes are the kind of changes that let you know that the next relationship you are in, will be one of love, understanding, and forgiveness from you.
And I say you, because that is the only person you can truly control.
Maybe.....just maybe, your next relationship will be with your wife.
Those changes have to be real, and for YOU and YOU alone......anything less than that, and it will be just a ploy to "win" her back....and we will see you again.
Brad.....I see you....trying to absorb this. Trying to find a medical explanation for this....
But I also see you slowly muddling through each day, waiting for her to suddenly have this burning desire to drive home to you ,and beg you to forgive her.....
Then you can sit back, smoke your victory cigar, and keep doing the same old, same old. Getting the same results over and over again.
Let me ask you this.....why are there new drugs available everyday for the same symptoms ?
Insanity is doing the same things over and over...expecting different results.
Brad.....I can tell you this....
IF....she is MLC.....She is in no way doing this on purpose to you.....
