Looking for Advice

[dbs]

Hang in there brutha! I've had those experiences when I felt like I was going to explode. Getting to a place to vent saved me! Sometimes early on I would not be that smart and start a "talk" with the WAS and put us back weeks.

I found that finding a way to destress (working out-talking out-getting out) helped immensely.

Stay in charge of you and you keep your power, a necessary-right now. Folks here are great at rescues. Don't be afraid to ask for one if needed!

[gutwrenching]

Thanks you dbs. I needed a save and I had people coming to the rescue today. As I have stated, I will not initiate a talk but I really see it happening, initiated by her.

What is the best way to respond to what I anticipate hearing: "I don't know if I can get to place where I am willing to try again on our M" and possibly the infamous "I love you but am not in love with you". Do I just tell W that I understand how W got to this point? I know better than to beg or plead or talk about the past, but I don't know really how to best respond to the first quote which she has said a few times to me in the past.

I also think that if I bring up the fact that I was there for her during the suicide and intially she came to me, I think the response will be that she let her guard down a little because it was stressful and comfortable for a moment, but then she remembered everything from the past. So I wont go there either.

[Lotus]

Tell her she doesn't have to make that decision today. But as things stand, you are a family, and you are on the same team. You are willing to work with her to get along. You hope that she will work with you too.

[gutwrenching]

Thanks Lotus. I like that. Team is a great word because she has said we made a good team in the past but we needed more.

And I'm back to a PMA. Going to be all smiles, all upbeat when she comes home. She saw the anger and disappointment and uncertainty when we got the phone call together, but we were both that way. Now time to be past it, "as if"...maybe even so much so that I can avoid the talk.

[dbs]

For her to say she "doesn't know" means just that. She does NOT know right now one way or another.

My WAW on exit #2 assured me she could NEVER, EVER in a million years be intimate again-EVER, and therefor could never be a wife. After 10 months and calling off the D the day of the hearing we got back together, and guess what. She found out she was utterly and completely wrong, (to her great surprise and our great delight).

For some humor (which almost always helps) remember in dumb and dumber when Jim Carrey asks the blonde bombshell if there is a chance he and her will ever get together, and she says, "like one in a million" and he is like-yippee you are saying there is a chance. It's how you look at it!

[gutwrenching]

ALL - the update. We did talk, I know we shouldn't have, but one has to understand how much there is/hanging out there. Did I talk too much, probably. Yes, she initiated the talk. Did I learn some things, yes. Do I feel better, yes. Am I more optimistic, absolutely not.

We agreed that no decision needed to be made right now, we would just see if this panned out. I learned that as much as I thought my children were helping, W claims it is making her angry. Makes her angry to see me being the dad I should have been before. Reminds her of the unhappy times, which of course, is still being painted as the whole marriage. Makes her angry to see me doing all the things she used to do with them. At that point, I was very honest -- told her I had to do those things because she is never around anymore--someone had to fill the void. I told her our kids want her in their lives, what they really want is to do stuff with both of us. I told her that was part of my motivation to be able to keep on trying -- her reply is she doesn't want our kids to see a loveless M and right now she feels NOTHING for me. She actually said she respects me, we're good friends, good co-workers, but there is no desire in her for me.

I used some of the lines like needing a willing partner, are we ready to try to take baby steps and really try. Basic answer is not really. She feels nothing for me. She re-iterated she doesn't want hugs, doesn't want to hold my hand, nothing, feels nothing. She doesn't want me to see her without her clothes on and she says that tells her a lot. I validated how she felt and asked her if I was respecting her in those terms and she agreed I have been. She mentioned something about wanting space and I asked her about that and she agrees I have given her space.

Subject of OM came up and lack of trust on both sides. She still swears they have not been in contact. LIE that I cannot prove. I called her out on the phone, she gave me the phone after a long discussion. All evidence had been erased. She says she offered to give me the phone a long time ago, I blew that one if she did. So I have the pay as you go phone, not that they couldn't go get another one. I realize that, but the key for me was not in my house, where it was hidden. She swears she has let go because she has too. She says it was a mistake and silly to let things go as far as she did. I asked for a transparency plan in order to move forward...she said she doesn't want to move forward and she keeps stuff in the e-mail I don't have the password too that she doesn't want me to see about D options. She thinks I'm being silly checking on her, not trusting her, wanting the phone, etc. I told her to me it wasn't silly. Even though we don't have much of a M these days, we are still married and I am not going to share her, that is highly disrespectful and both of us deserved respect. Having an open M is not respectful. She seemed to understand that.

She says we are good roomates these days. She is willing to try little things like watching TV or watching a movie together - but we've been doing that for a few weeks now. She does not want a date night of any sort, said it will make her angry. But she is willing to get a sitter and go out to see a movie...again I guess basically as roommates.

We don't know what to do if I get that job. We pretty quickly agreed that we didn't even need to think about that right now, but strangely led to all the other talk that I just described. She did say again that 9 months ago she would be excited and this would be exactly what we wanted, but now its not. Its just unexpected and she doesn't know how to feel about it. She said if I get that position, I can't have the issues we have. I don't have any clue what she is implying there and although I asked for her to explain, I didn't really get one.

I asked if she was still willing to go to church and the answer was yes for the girls but not for us. I said it wasn't about us, it was about me and it was about the girls and I would hope should would go for herself. But she's not willing/wanting to go for her, just for the girls.

We agreed we would keep on working out in the morning's together -- that we enjoyed that.

So where'd we get -- nowhere. Did I make mistakes--probably and the 2x4s will come out. Where do I go from here -- well looking for advice.

[Lost Rabbit]

GW you did get somewhere although it doesnt seem like it at the moment, this situation made her discuss things with you, she like you will be going over things in her head today, your persistance bugs her at the moment, that is good everyone wants to be wanted even if they dont want to give at the moment.

You both agreed to see how it panned out, another good thing, no immediate reactionary decision was made. She agrees your a team she never mentioned leaving that team. Perhaps spend some time thinking about what the worst scenario could have been then you will see more of the good things that didnt happen!

[gutwrenching]

Just feeling numb at the moment. A little down. Little sleep, although I was able to go to sleep, one kid woke up in middle of night, come in and get me, had trouble going back to sleep.

Numb, confused, a little down. Not sure why. Was much more positive last night.

Debating on letting the phone thing go (her claim she didn't use it on trip) or calling company to ask when was the last time minutes were added. Probably no value added in that, but the thought did cross my mind.

[Lotus]

GW,

You had an open, honest, and not angry talk with your wife. Around here that is huge! Most people can't talk to each other and live in silence, or angry words. So you did good!

Honestly, where you are is a normal stage of marriage. People do not stay "in love" throughout their lives. I've heard it said that a good marriage is a series of falling in and out of love with the same person. I have to admit, that has been true for me. i went through many years when I actually hated my husband. And then my feelings would soften again, and on and on. It was at the Retrouvaille weekend when I was really able to fall in love with him again. It is hard to maintain those good feelings, but now that we are older, and barstool sitting is not a good option for me, I make a stronger effort.

[gutwrenching]

Yes, it was open, hopefully honest, there was no anger. It was peaceful, calm, but draining on both of us.

Lost - your words that everyone wants to be wanted, that is probably part of my being down today - I am not wanted. There was a defininte chill in the air this morning around us, not as friendly/positive as it has been. I guess that is to be expected.

Lotus - I wish so much I felt I could suggest Retrouvaille, I don't think she'd go for it. She re-iterated she doesn't want dates, she doesn't want holding hands, touching, none of that. She also seems very cognizant these days of making sure she isn't sending any signal or giving me any false hope, so that is probably part of the reason I have such an extreme pullback. I did mention that I thought for a couple of days that we might be working on something - the first couple days after the suicide. She said that I was just so extremely helpful that she was very grateful. I don't know, I still want to think it was a little more than that, but she won't admit it, but maybe I am wrong, wanting positive sings too badly. She isn't even willing to committ to working on the M right now, so unfortunately, that Retrouville is not an option right now. Heck, with the cold responses I am getting, I am wondering if I should even say goodbye in the morning and goodnight in bed as we go to sleep. Nine times out of ten, I am the one saying it first, last night and this morning, the tone in her voice seemed to say she didn't want me to say anything. But I don't know if I could stop--it is about the only thing I can do to show change about those things that have helped take to her to where she is now.

I thing I forgot to mention is I did suggest IC. Told her I was looking into it for me and that it might do her some good. I said this after she told me she didn't completely understand why she was still so angry. She didn't shoot it down. She said maybe it would help. I might pursue that a little more.

She also told me that often she can't relax when I am around and she doesn't why.

She also seemed almost suprised that I was still willing to work on things. I told her the kids were a big part of it and that I am a believer in marriage and therefore felt like I should give it another shot. To her, the kids are not a reason. She agrees they are happier when we do stuff together, but she insists they will be fine if we split. The two of us will always be a part of each others lives because of the girls but maybe not in the same capacity.

Lastly, I do have a friend (male) here who now knows about everything. He cornered me yesterday and flat out asked if our M could survive being apart again, he said he's worried about us, he's seen a lot of indicators. This is the same friend I said I was going to try to wait a couple of weeks until he and W weren't working together, but we talked. I do trust him completely, he won't betray me. And he is D and re-married happily and after talking, we have a lot in common from first M. He is very supportive of me continuing to try to work things out and was driving home the point of changing for me, doing things for me. Get this, he suspected something was going on with W and OM based on some of the things W had said.