Looking for Advice

[gutwrenching]

All - thanks for the encouragement. W is back. Got back in late about 1 in the morning based on the flight arrival and having to take people home. Everything you said about mild mannered, nice, rudeness etc is spot-on.

So - how'd it go last night. OK. She was friendly not warm or cold. I was positive, friendly not sure about upbeat cause I was tired. She TM a few times letting me know she was in and dropping people people at their houses.

She told me a fair number of details about the trip, I told her about some of the stuff that had happened here. She did not notice my new shirt nor the cologne (she didn't get close enough to notice). No physical touches at all, no hug, no touch, not even a brush against me as I walked by. She unpacked, I stayed away while she unpacked.

This morning, more of the same. Kind of feels like we are back to where we were prior to the suicide. She did say to me that "we have to do our workout today" so that I guess is somewhat of a positive because I think it can help draw her closer. I might be wrong.

She did notice this morning that I was wearing a new sweatshirt around the house...and she asked when did you get that...and I answered oh the other day.

I have not snooped as I still struggle if I should go the snoop route, the outshine route, and just wait for her to get too comfortable and really mess up. Not sure what is the best method on this one. It is an EA with an out of town OM. I did see as she pulled out a handful of powercords one that was obviously a car charger to the pay as you go phone. I am tempted to snag it and throw it away, but probably won't.

If she was as busy as she claimed, there wouldn't have been a ton of time to talk to OM, but there certainly would have been some time. Who knows.

I suspect today will be a pretty routine day of doing stuff together with the kids and getting ready for the week. I did make steps towards not cake eating. Normally I probably would have started the laundry for her...not today. I made sure all of our laundry was done and then she actually started doing hers from the trip and I will not jump in and do it for her.

[gutwrenching]

As far as not putting up with the affair, do I actually say that. As far as she claims, she has ended contact with OM. I have not brought up fact I saw call to tracphone nor that I snooped and found tracphone in bag with one call to OM nor that I saw tracphone charger last night (that one wouldn't have been snooping)...

[Greek]

As far as not putting up with the affair, do I actually say that. As far as she claims, she has ended contact with OM. I have not brought up fact I saw call to tracphone nor that I snooped and found tracphone in bag with one call to OM nor that I saw tracphone charger last night (that one wouldn't have been snooping)...

Why not? You put the boundary down and you tiptoe around her behavior. Did you mean what you said about the OM? Don't you know, GW, that your M will NOT get to GOOD with infidelity?
Greek

[gutwrenching]

Maybe it is tiptoeing, but it is not knowing how to best approach, maybe it is the differing opinions on whether it is best to keep on exposing or wait till there is a tone of evidence or try the outshine method.

Also if I do expose how hard core do I go. Do i just mention it and say not acceptable. Do I inform OMs W, do I demand transparency.

Im confused on what will work best in sitch. That and probably feeling empathy for a few days because of the suicide and also knowing that at least the last week wasn't the right time to bring it up.

Is now the right time, not sure, have to gauge that also.

[gutwrenching]

And the only other concern with this is that it is R talk. Which I have been successfully staying away from for a couple of weeks now...
Am I making excuses, no I don't think so, I am just confused on where/how to proceed. I know whatever I do, I need to take my time and think it thru, so would be glad to hear what others think.

[rockedworld]

Well GW, I know when I got to this point in my sitch, I got some strong advice from of the men on the boards to speak up and confront whatever I did know. I didn't do that. I felt I needed actual, real proof. They kept telling me I have enough. And, I had less than you. Maybe I should have, but I was scared... it is hard!

So... if you DID lay a clear boundary in the past about NC, and you KNOW there was contact last week... she has violated the boundary. What does it say if you let that go?

There are some on these boards that say any form of A means you forfeit your right to privacy. When your W started an EA, and is still married to you, you have the right to "snoop" to determine if you can be emotionally safe in this M and to make decisions of what you feel is best for YOU and your kids.

You might want to give her a day or two to settle from the trip, but then there is nothing wrong with letting her know you are aware of at least one contact with OM, which means there is likely more than that. Let her know that means she violated the boundary. Let her then choose... either she respects the boundary with total transparency, or you will need to make some choices for YOU which may include S or D. This is not an ultimatum, it is maintaining a boundary you have already set and that you know she has violated.

In the meantime, keep with the DB strategies.

[gutwrenching]

Thanks Rocked. Right now, seems like a good approach. Will see if others chime in and will monitor for a couple of days, hopefully. Before the first exposure, I had planned on waiting a few days but then go so mad/disrespected at the blatant texting going on with me in the same room, that I called her on it right there. That was a mistake, but not a large one, so hopefully I learned my lesson.

Today just odd. Seems like I say that a lot. We both slept in, she offered to let me continue to sleep and take the girls, but I didn't want that so I said no thanks and got up and made coffee. A short while later she says to me we need to do our workout today. That shocked me, I was planning on approaching the workout subject this evening with the I'm going to do it regardless, would you like to join me.

Then she couldn't stay awake and took a nap and I played with the younger daughter. When she woke up she said she doesn't know what happened, but probably because of the sleeping pill she took last night plus the fact "I haven't really slept in months"...not sure to make of that comment. She has already asked me not to ask her how she slept because it annoys her cause the answer is usually crappy. Before all this EA began, she slept great, heavy sleeper. She had never told me before that she hadn't slept well in months.

After working out, I showered and put on my other new shirt. She did notice right away. Said "new shirt when did you go shopping"...I said oh "the other day after work"...so maybe she was just too out of it last night, but two for two today on noticing and commenting/asking about new clothes.

The workout was good. I made sure to stay positive about it and comment how much I got out of it. She told me that is why she was so addicted to this type of workout a few years ago...and I tried the DB technique of affirming that and saying I can now understand why, I have never tried this type of workout before but I am becoming a believer.

Next is grocery shopping...she still hasn't noticed the cologne...maybe in the car or at the store...will see.

Will continue to monitor actions/attitudes.

[gutwrenching]

Uneventful evening. Kids though, go to love them, sometimes they say things that you couldn't bribe them to say. D8 says to W, "mom it felt like you were only gone one day." W replies is that because you had good time with dad. D8 then enthusiastically says "yes" and proceeds to rattle off every fun thing we did together. All I could do to hold back jumping out of my seat to go hug her and give her a high 5.

Journaling now more than anything:
Maybe some progress detaching today. W heads to basement again this evening...and it doesn't bother me one bit. That is a step in the right direction. She told what work she had to do and my comment was "that sounds like a late one" at which point I had made up my mind, I was going to bed at a decent time without her. but she immediately said "oh gosh no, we have to get up early to workout"

And, some of the 2x4s sinking in. I'm going to go down there later, my house too, I need to set up the computer for the workout video and I'm not doing it in the morning. I can give her some space, but that doesn't mean she gets to take over that part of the house.

W for first time in a long time, acted like a partner in this whatever we have these days (M, R, ?). She made dinner, she cleaned-up after dinner, helped get the kids to bed, etc. It was almost a shock. And when we went grocery shopping for the week, she even picked up a couple of things that she knows she would have to make, I don't know how. So that possibly implies she'll come home at decent hour for a change...guess I'll believe that when I see it.

Also she was surprisingly interested in what was going on with my work blackberry. As I was looking at it at one point, she asked if had got something, I said yes, and she asked what. That seemed a little strange for someone who just a few days ago didn't seem to care less what was going on in my life, work or personal.

Her temper/fuse with the kids is still short. That bothers me, but holding my tongue for now. Not that she is mean or abusive or anything like that, but I can see her blood boiling after little provocation...she used to be much more patient.

[rockedworld]

You are making some great changes, especially with making progress in detaching! I love what your D8 said... kids are just honest! My kids are teens but it was some of the things they said that really created some turnaround for my H. It seems a WAS often can "turn off" their empathy for you, but it's much harder with the kids.

Keep being mysterious and less available... it seems to be creating some curiosity for her. That is a good thing!

You are on the right track... keep it going!

[gutwrenching]

Hi Rocked - good to hear from you again.
Big test for me today is to see how is the anxiety at work. So far so good but it is early. Sticking with the advice but still hate the counter-intuitive. Seeing TMs back and forth between W and female friend of hers with wife saying "how sweet" it was that friends husband sent her flowers. I know better than to do that, but I still wish I had that opprotunity.

I did miss an opportunity last night. I lost track of the time and didn't realize it was late and therefore didn't just unannouced go set up the computer in the basement. Instead, W sent me an e-mail asking if I was going to come set it up, we needed to start getting ready for bed.

I did not sleep well at all last night, don't know why exactly, but W did seem to sleep well which frankly I'm perplexed by. Even when she was getting steady does of contact from OM, she was not sleeping. She told me she didn't sleep on her trip, but now back home and two nights in a row.

We did workout this morning...didn't get a noticeable positive response or change in attitude like I did 2 weeks ago when we first were going to start. No hug goodbye, still no pysical contact at all since she returned (other than accidentally when I rolled over in sleep and put hand on her shoulder and she then rolled away)

One odd question last night as we were getting ready for bed. She asked me if both our vehicles were in my name, I answered honestly that I don't remember. She says the wife of the deceased can't get her tags renewed because vehicle in deceased name and my W was worried of something like that if I passed away. I know I shouldn't analyze things, but if W planning on D soon, then why would that matter?

I will not initiate any contact today. I can do that again. As counter-intuitive as it feels.

Being mysterious is going to be much, much, tougher with her back home. I can see the disadvantage of us still being under one roof and sleeping in the same bedroom...and that is the mysterious/available part. Avaialable I can still do. Last night I did something I would have never done, even before there were issues. She put in a load of laundry and then went to the basement. I didn't put it in the dryer. She forgot as I knew she would. Didn't get the clothes into the dryer until this morning. Little things like that I can do.