Thought I'd post an update, although there's not much to update.
Things are going well. W has hit her mid winter funk that she goes through every year. Not bad, but the lack of sun definitely affects her. I've thought about getting her some tanning appts so she can get some sun, however fake to see if it'll help.
W is very busy at work and so am I. This leads to some pretty quiet nights. But it's ok.
I'm planning a surprise trip to Disney World for our 25th anniversary Mar 2. I'm not going to tell W anything about it (she thinks we're going to the Mtns for a few days) and when she gets home from work on Feb 26 I'm going to tell her she has one hour to pack for a warm climate cause we have to catch a plane. I know she'll be excited, but she'll also acted pissed because I sprang it on her, but after she calms down, she'll be all over it.
That's about it for now. Talk to ya later.
Hope4us
Me - 49, W 49 S22 & S18 Dday 9/4/07 W claims NC 4/7/08 8/29/09 - Divorce Busted. Lots to work through, but we're going to make it.
What a wonderful surprise. I once planned a surprise trip for BF to go to SF to see the Cubs play the Giants. He had no idea, I cleared it with his boss to take the day off and packed the suitcase for him. Don't think it would ever occur to him to do something like that for me. But I certainly would love it!
If you love somebody, set them free. http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g
Hey everybody. Thanks for the responses Pearl, Rocked. And WDID, I'm sorry you still have that anger and funny thing, I discovered Friday night that W still is VERY ANGRY with me for telling our kids what was going on. My finding that out was in the middle of "THE CONVERSATION". That conversation that has been needed, for BOTH of us, that we just hadn't had before this. And this is going to be long.
And it was the most painful, gut wrenching, agonizing conversation either of us has ever had. And part way through it, W looks at me and says "I can't take any more of this conversation right now" and I said "Ok, we can stop, but we're going to have to come back here again because it's obvious we both have stuff that needs hashed out" and she looked at me and said, "I know, ok, lets finish then" and an hour or so after that we were falling asleep in each others arms, emotionally exhausted.
I'm going to summarize, this conversation went on for over 2 hours and I can't remember the exact order and exact words, but here it is.
I took W to Cleveland for a concert. One of our favorite performers. Got a hotel room just down the street from the concert venue. We took off Friday around 2:30 or so, drove up, got our room, went out for some dinner and then to the concert.
Concert was GREAT. We were having a blast and honestly, I can't remember exactly how the conversation started because it started just as the concert was winding down, continued the whole walk back to the hotel and then in our room.
I think it started when just after one of our favorite songs was done, W grabbed my arm and pulled me close and gave me a kiss. And I think I said "I like when you do that, I wish you would do that more to me, it really makes me feel loved and wanted".
W said of course she wants me, but she still struggles, like it's a mental block she has that she just can't get past. (Kind of like when we had this same discussion in Fla in Nov), that when we're at home and it's just normal routine life, she struggles with the pain she's caused and it makes it hard for her to let herself go. We talked about that for a bit, I again asked her if it isn't time for her to forgive herself?
There was some more conversation I don't remember, but I then told her it was hard for me to NOT get that kind of affection from her because it makes me feel NOT needed and it leads me to think of all sorts of F'd up thoughts. W asked me "Like what?" I told her it makes me think I'm being compared to OM in everything I do and I just don't measure up in your mind. It makes me think I'm the backup plan because things just didn't work out with OM and you didn't want to hurt the kids with D, and that sometimes I feel like I can't be myself because I was always myself before and look what happened.
And that's when W first started crying. She told me she doesn't compare me to OM at all, and she got kind of angry and said "YOU KNOW YOU'RE A BETTER PERSON THAN OM!" (WOW, weren't we just talking about that on here just a few days back?) She continued saying she is so over OM, that I'm a better man than him, that she rarely thinks of OM at all and when she does it's in the context of "how could I be so stupid".
The rest I have a hard time remembering the sequence and exactly what was said so I'll just list out the things that W and I said and leave it at that.
She still believes I told the kids to hurt her and she is still deeply hurt by that.
She kept saying "how could I be so stupid?", sometimes hitting herself in the forehead with the palm of her hand.
She expressed surprise when I told her I hadn't talked to OMW in over a year and that was just two emails when OMW told me her D was moving along. She thought OMW and I were still talking.
OM has already remarried after his divorce and it was to the GF he got shortly after he left our area while still carrying on with my W. She expressed surprise when I told her I knew he had a GF shortly after he left and she said "why didn't you tell me?" and I replied that at that point there was no way she'd believe me anyway so I didn't, and that I did tell her about his GF a year or so ago and she said she couldn't remember.
If OM comes back to our location, she thinks it wouldn't be a problem because her A wasn't really about him, but a reaction to some things she'd begun to feel even before we relocated and she met him. She shared what those things were and then began crying, almost violently saying "why the F didn't I just talk to you about those things instead of doing what I did?" We did discuss the OM returning quite a while and I told her if it happened we'd have to relocate because while she feels like he means nothing to her, I would never be able to live with them working in the same location and she sobbed "then lets hope it never happens because I hate that my F up has the ability to control decisions that only you and I should make about our lives". We talked about those things that were going on that made her vulnerable to the A and they were a lot of the things I'd figured out on my own, she felt smothered because we worked at the same work site, ate lunch together a lot, felt like my career mattered and hers didn't because even when we were with her coworkers, the conversation always ended up being about me and the big projects I was working on, etc. She felt like she was left carrying the load at home because I was gone A LOT for work and when I'd come home, all I wanted was sex, at least that's how she felt. And when we moved, OM was there, pursuing her and she just didn't realize how much resentment she was carrying around and before she knew what was going on, it was too late. But she said she realized now that the A wasn't about being in love with OM, but that he was giving her what she really needed at the time and it became intoxicating.
OM was never at our house. That was a burning question I'd had for a long time. I told W "good cause if he had been, we'd have to move" and she actually got a laugh out of that.
OM never asked her to do any twisted stuff. She asked me why I would even ask that and I told her that OMW told me a long time ago that a number of times OM wanted her to pick up some random guy in a bar or somewhere and bring him home and F him while he watched. W just looked at me and sobbed some more.
She feels like I told the kids to hurt her and to get them on my side and that I wanted to punish her for what she did. I said I told them for two reasons, because at the time I was going to file for divorce and that she wanted us to tell the kids that we both thought it was for the best and I replied that I would never lie to the kids about something that so affects their lives and that I wanted them to know that at least one of their parents would be truthful to them. She again sobbed violently saying now our kids think she's a slut. I held her for a bit and told her, NOW our kids know you're human and made a mistake and that when I did tell the kids I was very clear with them that you are their mother, that you love them very much and you just made a mistake and that I would not accept them being disrespectful to you in any way. I continued with the second reason I told them, that sometimes that's the thing that can snap the WAS out of the "fog" and get them to see clearly and that if that's what it took for her to wake up and our marriage to have a chance, wouldn't it be better that they knew and we worked through it and recovered our marriage than for them to not know and us end up divorced?
She got very angry with me and cried violently some more but after she got that out, she looked at me and said "I understand why you did it". I then said "just think of the example of unconditional love and forgiveness the kids have learned in this. Just think of how the kids know now that sometimes chit happens in marriages and that you just don't give up".
She then said "marriage shouldn't be hard". I told her I understood what she was saying, but that marriage is hard work, that when you have two individuals living together ALL THE TIME, that of course there's going to be bumps along the way and in every marriage there's always going to be times when you're not "in love" with your spouse, but ya work through it because you know that its worth it.
There was more, but that's the gist of it. We fell asleep holding each other close and it felt great.
In the morning we got ready and headed home. While driving I looked at W and said "I appreciate you opening up to me last night. I know it was painful but I know I NEEDED that to be able to move on". She looked at me and said "I needed that too" and then she told me she loved me (with a little tear running down her cheek).
We just laid around yesterday. I know I was mentally exhausted (and I think W too), but I could tell that that huge elephant that's still been in the room between us is GONE. But now I feel us even closer than we've ever been.
I have a huge on my face as I sit here typing. I think I need to change some things in my signature line as I just don't think some if it matters and is accurate anymore.
Hope4us
Me - 49, W 49 S22 & S18 Dday 9/4/07 W claims NC 4/7/08 8/29/09 - Divorce Busted. Lots to work through, but we're going to make it.
I have a feeling we will be having similar CONVERSATIONS at different points. We have had some already, but to really dig deep down like you two did... like you said, agonizing but needed.
The way you describe some of your thoughts/feelings that you shared with your W, I can relate to exactly. I keep wondering how long I will struggle with those things (fear of being compared, fear of being myself b/c look where that got me etc.)My H also does seem to see OW in such a different light already now, b/c from what little we do know about what she is up to since the A ended, he is disgusted. He often says the "how could I be so stupid" line.
I am encouraged by your update. For one reason, to see the changes that have continued to happen for your W and your M since the fog has been lifting. And, for another to read about how great you feel today about things moving farther along as a result of this conversation.
I was reading an article on overcoming A's the other day, and they were talking about how many couples will describe a level of honesty, openness, and therefore emotional and physical intimacy they never had before. It sounds like that is your experience and I can see that already happening for us too. I (like I'm sure you and everyone else here) would have rather not had to go through this nightmare to get to that, but focusing on the good that comes out of it seems to help.
These conversations are ALWAYS emotionally exhausting but much needed. Now the two of you can continue to move forward in your M with more openness and honesty than you had prior. This is very encouraging.
Me47 H46 S13 M16 Piecing since May/09
"Life is 10% what happens to us and 90% how we react to it." Lou Holtz
What a fantastic update! I have tears in my eyes just reading it. I'm glad you two finally got that off your chests and the remnants of the walls came tumbling down. Exhausting, yes, but definitely worth it.
If you love somebody, set them free. http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g
on my face as I sit here typing. I think I need to change some things in my signature line as I just don't think some if it matters and is accurate anymore.