Man, I have only read a few of the previous pages. I am sick to my stomach. Look we are not unique. Your posts have allowed me to look at my own sitch a bit clearer. GNOS is right, so is Cutter- make a plan and draw a line and find your nuts.
Enough is enough- do the 180's for yourself, GAL, and give her your back. Really. That e-mail made me cringe, and I have been the king of pursuit.
When you wrote that, you put some time in it and some heartfelt emotions as well...you cannot detatch when you put yourself through that- unless you're full of shirt when you write it. Which you're not.
I say no texts, no emails, NC. I would love for my W to come clean about the A, yours has and she flips a coin as to whether she'll grace you w/ her presence?! And you wait!!
F her, do your own thing and maybe even try meeting some new women- as practice and for your self esteem. Don't be a dog, but start earning some respect from people whom are genuine.
The 180's you shold focus on, aside from anything that betters you as a person, are the one's that she may see 3rd hand. Neat house, clean car, well dressed, considerate to others, etc, etc.
She deserves nothing from you, especially not some promise to never give up and to wait for her.
I did the same shirt for 4 months. When I finally started to get things right, and they were few and far between, I started to get some results...the biggest help was detatching- she wants pursuit- you've done it, now youre done- that's it.
You do NOT want to be a jerk. You do NOT want to be rude. You do not act in a punitive manner to her. You do NOT show anger or discontent.
Ok? Got that?
However.... You are going overboard the other way...
The key is a quiet confidence that you will not share your wife with not only another man, but ANY man. The key is to show her that even though you admit you screwed up in the marrieage, that you WILL let her go. Freely. You will NOT stop her from leaving. She is totally free to go and as a matter of fact you think that she SHOULD go because you just will not share a woman you have a committment with, with ANY man. Firmly, matter of factly, and confident.
YOU do not chase her. You don not tell her you lover her. YOu do not make her do anything. You just open the cage door and let her freely go. You then drop any tralk of getting back together. You are nice to her, but that is it. You don't act angry or bitter, but you don't ask for anything of her other than to move out asap because YOU HAVE NOW DECIDED that this isn't going to work unless she WANTS to be here...
THAT is they attitude that gives you the best chance to reconcile. It isn't falling all over her with endless letters of love and devotion. It is a quiet confidence of "I am ok and I will be ok, and I realize why you found someone else, BUT I am not going to do anything to reconcile if you are with someone else....
THAT comes AFTER your reconscile because she WANTS to. As long as you pressure her, she will fight the pressure.
Now, the reason this works so well is that she will secretly respect your stance because it shows confidence. She will test you, no doubt. LET HER. Just hold your ground. You have to remeomber that the wayward is very rarely positive that they are doing the right thing. They are not sure if they are making a mistake. When you allow them to go they suddenly start to question if they HAVE screwed up. IS this what I want they think? HOLD your ground when you get tough. Contniue on with your life and go out and enjoy yourself. Have fun. Let her see you are having fun. Let h er see you havging the time of your life. This is what works.
she will secretly respect your stance because it shows confidence. She will test you, no doubt. LET HER. Just hold your ground. You have to remember that the wayward is very rarely positive that they are doing the right thing. They are not sure if they are making a mistake. When you allow them to go they suddenly start to question if they HAVE screwed up. IS this what I want they think?
gucci is giving you good advice LHS. Confidence is very attractive.
I agree with Gucci's last post, but do you really understand why she went running into OM's arms? More than one OM's arms?
Look, I have read threads from LBH's and what it does to their manhood when their W leaves them for OM. But your W had had the same thing done to her (from the female POV) and she never had therapy for what happened in her young life....and then her jerk of a H put the icing on the cake by telling her how unattractive she was. You don't do that to a young woman who struggles to have any self-esteem and wants to feel loved and accepted for who she is.
After that incident, she goes and does the unthinkable to you. In this woman's POV, I think she was looking for somebody to show her she was attractive & sexy & desirable & loveable. No, it was not a positive form of attention.....not a healthy type, but remember, she was never C about what took place when she was younger. Maybe she thinks that is the only way she can recieve affirmation of any kind is through sex. You helped that type of unhealthy thinking in the way you treated her by having sex with her immediately after discovering about her ONS. Yes, she went running back to you and you were so self-centered and insecure as a man that "she" had to affirm that you were "the man baby"! You had to know that you were bigger, better, and of course, more handsome than OM. So, you felt better! But, what about her?
God, don't you get it? It's not about you! It doesn't make any difference how much better looking you are than the OM! Your actions have made me sick to my stomach and I think you need to get into C to learn how to grow up and become a man. This woman you are M to needs special care now b/c she is more screwed up than she's ever been in her life. It will take a very special, matured minded man to be able to help her and to get this R on health ground again.
You will have to learn how to stay balanced with the advice that Gucci and the others have given you. She doesn't need to cake eat. She doesn't need to be enabled in any A's. She does need boundaries. She doesn't need the weak sister of a male for a H. She must respect you as a man and as her H. But you've go to have what it takes and I'm wondering if you've applied anything that has been given to you.
My advice is to leave her alone and work on yourself and become the man you need to be. She needs C in order to heal and be prepared to be a W again. Both of you need to work separately on yourselves before entering back into a MR. Right now, I think you would just tear her up again, and she would react the same way she did before.....by running out and jumping into bed with the first man she found that would show her he thought she was attractive.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I haven't chimed in on this thread at all but I've read the last half dozen pages.
You remind me of me a few months ago. I think I've come down the road and made a lot of changes and understand things a lot better. I have my ups and downs and low moments (this being on of them).
The thing though is that EVERY SINGLE PERSON in this thread is telling you the same thing. But you're too scared to act on the advice. Kicking your wife to the curb is completely non-intuitive. How the hell can that work? How can pushing somebody away actually bring them back closer to you.
Surprisingly enough, it does.
She is doing nothing but cake eating. She has two men to fulfill all of her emotional needs. Two men that love her. Two men that will do whatever she wants them to do. Two men FIGHTING over her. Jeez, how great is that? How great would it feel if you had two women doing that for you? I know it would boost me regardless of how 'wrong' it is.
My advice is exactly the same as everybody else. Kick her to the curb. Stop her cake eating. Make it very clear you will NOT share her with anybody else. And while she is sharing herself with somebody else you will not enable her any further financially, sexually or emotionally. You deserve respect. You deserve somebody who loves you. You deserve to be happy.
She is disrespecting you. She doesn't love you. She is making you miserable.
The biggest thing you can do now ... grow a pair of b*lls and get on with it.
And when you kick her to the curb and break contact don't do it half-ar*ed or you've had it. Do it all on the same day. Leave her with the thought that 'WTF just happened'. Don't give her time to process it. Kick her away, close the door and ignore ALL contact unless it's business to do with the M. And even then ignore it as long as you can.
If you continue doing what you're doing you will push your W further and further away. And you will become a bigger and bigger emotional wreck.
Your one and only priority just now is you. Not her. Work on you. GAL, 180's and do whatever you need to do to ensure your emotional and mental state is preserved. You will need it for the rest of your life. For me that led me to NC. Best thing I ever did for me.
Me 36, W 34 | D 8 | M 3.5y Sep 2Aug09 | Left 6Sep09 | OM in 10Oct09 | NC 17Nov09 | Gave up caring - Jan 2010
"Have integrity. Do what is right, not what is expedient." "Delay is the antidote for anger"
Your one and only priority just now is you. Not her. Work on you. GAL, 180's and do whatever you need to do to ensure your emotional and mental state is preserved. You will need it for the rest of your life.
Hear hear!!!!!!
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
Thank you all. I told her this weekend that I did not need her that I instead wanted her and that there is a huge difference. She said she thought I just wanted to save the marriage for financial reasons. I reminded her that without the family there during the week to occupy my mind all I would have to do during the week is work (I would go out on the weekends) and my income would go up, so financially divorce would be good. I told her that I could not stop her from filing and if that is what she had to to so be it. I told her that I did not intend on sharing her and that I would not wait forever for her, the day is fast approaching when I will begin dating. I told her that if she wanted to work on a R for our M I would be here to listen to what she says and if she is serious we could continue.
She is now in semi-panic mode and is reaching out to me more than ever. She is inviting me over, wanting to jointly take the kids out, and wanting to talk about our relationship more than ever.
When I told her these things she at first became physically violent (closed fist to the face 5 or 6 times), I guess when you break script they really panic. After several hours she called to apologize and has been trying to get me to spend ever increasing amounts of time with her. I have went with her one time to take the children to a indoor playground and gym. I made sure the day was 100% about the children.
I have heard from mutual friends that she is thinking more about R than ever now and that she is wondering just how big of a mistake she has made.
On another note, she did ask me why and how I could want her back after all she has done. I simply told her because I was not perfect either and we both made many mistakes and that I loved her.
I reminded her that their would be no R without independent couselling for both of us as we both have major issues to sort out. I also reminded her that no else could ever make her happy, because happiness comes from within. I am now much happier since I realize some of my issues and am trying to work on them.
She asked how I gave up my addictions to my cell phone (answering business calls 24/7, now I shut it off) and web surfing (linux forums and whatreallyhappened). I told her that the little time we do spend together or the time I spend with the kids is more important than any of that. She said she is trying to break her texting addiction and her addiction to OM. She thinks that it is just because of a need for external validation (amen). She has started seeking external validation from old high school friends and work friends that are so highly unattractive that she would consider them untouchable. I wonder if this is a misplaced effort to replace the need for OM.
We had several positives. I was kind and held her in a hug while she asked questions and cried but I did not bend to her will. I let her know that I would be strong and here for her if she wanted but that I would be more than ok without her.
I know that I have to work on the rest of the advice and that I am still learning. Thank you to everyone who has posted. I have been a POS at times during this marriage and I am in IC to work on that. My W sees changes and likes them but I feel and have heard from her friends that she is afraid to come back right now because she feels she has nothing to bring back of value to the M. She feels less than human and does not think she deserves a second chance (she has said it often). I hold much hope. Our next MC is Jan 26th and her IC starts Feb 3rd.
It is truely amazing how just telling her I would be ok without her and that I had no control over what she decided but would not stand in her way made a huge difference in her thought process.
I will continue to read, study, and learn. Please continue to give advice, chew on me, 2X4 me, kick my a$$, or anything else you feel needs done so that I learn.
I will give my address if you need to do it in person. I am dead serious about wanting to save my M and to do that I must save me first.
Sandi2, Gucci, Gnosis, Michelle, Dudess, Puppy, Trentc, Robx, and all; I thank you and ask that you please do not give up on this stubborn, slow man.
Me 33 WAW 32 S12 S4 S2 M12 T14 Not wanting to ever give up.
I think that you hit the nail on the head perfectly. I am showing her now that I am here for her if she needs me, but I have refused to enable her in the affair. I am in IC to work on me and she starts IC Feb 3rd. I wish to never tear her down again and I wish to help her rebuild her self esteem. Her love language is words of validation and she does pay for them with sex. I have been giving her words of validation and refusing sexual touch from her at the same time. I will accept hugs and I will hold her but I want her to understand that she is not a sexual object (I can always use a hand) for anyone's use but instead is a special woman to be loved. I am walking the line between pursuit and distance right now. I will not use her for sexual gratification and will not ML to her when she is with OM. I want her, but I want all of her (heart, mind, and soul) and I want to give my all to her. She now knows this and does not need to be told again. I will never just f*@k her and will only ML to her again when she has decided enough with OM and I have seen NC letter.
Sandi, please continue to weigh in as you have a understanding on this particular sitch. I wish smartcookie could weigh in as well.
I have been controlling so I am trying to 180 that without being a doormat. I know that she is deeply hurt, and confused and more messed up than ever in her life and that I had a huge hand in causing that.
I do know that when she is in my arms she sometimes weeps and holds me tighter. I say nothing I am just there to hold her and try to make her feel safe as she processes her feelings.
I think IC will help her more than I ever could and now I am just buying time until it starts.
Thank you very much Sandi for the smack of truth. I know that OM has nothing to do with sex or looks but is only there for validation of her beauty. I will continue to validate her looks, cooking, mothering, art, and work accomplishments as that is what she needs to heal, but I will not include sexual contact as part of that.
She feels cheap and used right now by OM and by me. She feels that she is little more than a common whore and she does not deserve a second chance. She has said this to me and to others.
I have told her that we both made mistakes in the marriage and that her A has been a wake up call to me for the way that I treated her and that I wish to be a better man for myself as much as for her and the children, but we could not work on R as long as she was continuing her A.
Me 33 WAW 32 S12 S4 S2 M12 T14 Not wanting to ever give up.
