K4D It's a Wonderful Life

[K4D]

I'm not hoping for an annullment. I am not even thinking of it as an option. What my thought process has been is that if everything comes to a final close, I want to know if the church considered us married to begin with. I hope they do.

Something was said to me recently that if my W was a confirmed catholic when we got married and we did not get married by a priest, then my W did not submit to the authority of the church which she falls under if she was confirmed. This could invalidate the M from the beginning. However, if she had publicly in some formal manner renounced her catholisism before we were married, this could also change things. If I am not mistaken, she was a confirmed catholic who left the church and before we got married, she was baptized by the church of christ. Although we were both baptized as infants by the catholic church, I was not continued to be raised in the catholic church and instead of raised in the church of Christ. Not knowing how the catholic church works with regard to M, or caring at the time we got married, we proceeded to be married in the church of Christ.

And yes, she was pregnant when we got married so I guess if someone such as Mel Gibson wanted to push for Duress, blah blah blah, I guess someone could look at that. And yes I was drinking back then, although not at the wedding or when we signed the document or when I proposed. But through out the time together I drank. I was reading somewhere that addictions can be considered to make a M invalid. I don't know.

Anyways, the whole confirmation thing and being subject to the church at that point has left me wondering if our M was valid.

It is true that the catholic church does recognize outside M's. But in the case of where one or both parties are subject to the laws of the catholic church, via confirmation, then that M comes into question if done outside the church. I was told we would need to come in and have a sacrament done to validate our M which W at this time will have nothing to do with.

I would not seek an annullment to try and have a M ruled invalid. My reason for having our M looked at would be to see if it is or is not valid if W D's me. If it is valid, then I know my position. If it is not, then that leaves me with do I try to win her back or move on to see if there is a new better R out there. But my looking into it would have nothing to do with trying to invalidate the M. Either the M is valid or it is not. There is no trying to invalidate it or trying to get out of it or trying to find a loop hole. I just want to know where it stands now that some of these things have been tossed my way leading me to wonder about the status of our M.

I want my W and family back. I'm not sure that will ever change. I am just left wondering if she is my W according to the church or not.

Again, I am not looking for a loop hole, I am hoping she really is my W. Either way, at this time, it doesn't change her position on our M.

CG, I never questioned this until recently. I never had a reason to question it prior because it had never been made aware to me that there is a chance our M may not be valid. The thought never even crossed my mind.

Stuck, I am not hiding behind anything. I am stating what has been made aware to me recently that left me wondering what my status really is. I want more than anything to have my W and kids back intact.

25, I have nothing to say about your brother or SIL. That is up to the church, not me. They are the authority, not me. I realize some of the uninformed comments I made in the past that I should not have made or questioned about other people's situations.

The only situation I am questioning now is mine. And I am not looking for a get out of jail free card. I am not looking to get out of this. I don't want out of it. But if worse comes to worse, I intend to find out just where does our M stand according to the church. I don't care what the legal system says. The church is the only one that matters. The church has divine authority to rule on M's, not the court.

There is a civil M and a sacramental M. The church simply signs off on the civil portion. If the M is truly valid before the church and God, whatever the civil courts say after means nothing with regard to the M being valid or not.

Hopefully this gives you more insight as to where I have been mentally lately. Questions have been tossed to me that I am now not sure of.

I hesitate to say things on here sometimes because if I say what has been thrown my way that has thrown me into confusion, some of you immediately assume I am looking for a free easy esacpe which is not the case at all.

K4, just to repeat, I want to see you get well this year. Do you?

Of course.

BTW, I think a lot of catholics would question Rome if they actually granted Gibson an annulment.

Kevin