K4D It's a Wonderful Life

[Drew]

My kids are tired of going back and forth every week. They don't want to be in an apartment, yet don't want to be away from me either. They also get tired of forgetting things at one place or the other no matter how much we try and make sure they have everything each week. They get bounced back and forth because of this crap.

How do you know this? Did they tell you or are you assuming? You seem to project your feelings onto others.

W texted me and asked if we could do a birthday dinner with D7 Saturday night with her mom and step dad since her real dad is in town today. Tonight is her night with the kids and she wants to spend time with her dad and them without me. Ironically, tomorrow night and this weekend and next week is my time with the kids and she is wanting us to do dinner with her dad tomorrow night since it is my night with the kids. We will spend the birthday party together Saturday afternoon and then dinner saturday night with her stepdad just to accomdate their schedules since I have the girls during these times.

And yes, I allowed this in trying to improve R's with everyone. Interesting that tonight came about the way it did with me to be excluded again on her night. But I have some real issues I have been trying to get past towards W's real dad for pushing for a D from the beginning anyways. I have learned to forgive on that matter, but this is all just a bunch of manipulating BS from W and her dad as far as it appears anyways.

Just having a rough week with a lot of confusion.

Kevin

What do YOU want to happen this weekend? What do your kids want?

[K4D]

Do you HAVE to be with someone?

Just lonely Drew. I miss a R.

How do you know this? Did they tell you or are you assuming?

They have told me this.

What do YOU want to happen this weekend? What do your kids want?

My kids want us all together. W doesn't seem to care unless it is on my time. I would like us to be together. But I don't get a say on my W's time.

Kevin

[antlers]

Kevin,

I am stuck in limbo in that regard. Meanwhile, it is lonely without her and I don't even know if she is really my W. But I can't pursue someone else either since the church has not ruled on it and won't unless a D is finalized that I can't file for if I am to be in submission with the church.

Do you HAVE to be with someone?

Do not seek outside yourself. Look within.

[MrBond]

Sorry to hear about your mood right now.

Honestly, don't even think about whether or not you're even M to decide to stand or not. It comes down to what do YOU want?

The funk you're feeling is perfectly normal. It comes up from time to time. We all have felt that way. This to shall pass.

[Drew]

Lonely: Been there. Suck it up. Those that don't learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them.

Mom's house/Dad's house: Make sure they have everything they need at your house. Yeah, this all sucks. Make it as easy on them as you can.

B'day partys: Of course they want everyone together. My C would tell you that you are doing them a great disservice to keep up the fantasy of one big happy family. It actually hurts them in the long run. She excludes you on her night, but talks you into including her on your nights? Kevin, she's walking all over you.

Sorry to be so blunt, but .......

[CityGirl]

Kevin - do you think somebody knocked on my door one day and said to me "hey CityGirl, I hear you need a new life and I just happen to be giving those out today. Her ya go!"?

No.

I had to fight and claw to get the life I have now. And to be blunt I had lots more obstacles than you. Two years ago I was in such a state of shock, panic, pain and distress I sometimes spent up to 12 hours a day pacing around my apartment trying to "outsmart" a day long panic attack. In fact, I never even left my house because I developed a fear of being outside my house I was in such a state of panic. In turn my lupus went wild, I lost almost ALL my hair, I lost so much weight I was under 100 pounds, I almost lost my business and things were just a disaster.

In short, I was a total hot mess.

Like you I tried to find some loophole to get things straightened out so I didn't have to do any real work. Like you, I never found that loophole. So I just had to suck it up, make some awfully hard choices, set some terrifying boundaries and get to work on ME. I did that alone (I had the support of family and friends of course) but I did it ALONE and did not have another R.

I have posted this many times and now Drew just said the same thing. You are damaging your children further by constantly creating this illusion of a happy family. Why are you willing to damage your children in the name of seeing what MIGHT happen with your W? Why?

I don't doubt for a second that is what they want but as we all know we can't always get what we want.

You have posted many times what a problem it is that your children forget things at your house or your W's house. Yes, I am sure it does suck getting carted back and forth to two homes but they have been at this long enough where this MUST STOP. It is putting extra strain on you and your children. Sit the down before it happens again WITH them and tell them you understand it is difficult to have two homes (validation) but right now it is how it is and quite simply they will need to make the best of it. Let them know there will be no more stops at Mom's to pick up forgotten items and in the future they will simply have to go without. To ensure they NEVER have to go without make them a checklist and post it somewhere so they can BE CERTAIN they are not forgetting anything when they depart your home for the week.

As far as your kids telling you they don't like your apartment. Well, when exactly are you going to start commanding respect from SOMEBODY? Again, validate their feelings but also let them know this is YOUR HOME and it is disrespectful for them to complain they don't like it.

With all due respect it sounds to me as if you are raising two daughters that will turn out to be just like your W. There is a reason your kids pitch fits, get their way on family time even though the family is no longer in tact and forget things and keep on doing it even though it causes stress... because you allow it and they never have consequences just like your W never does.

Growing up my sister and I thought my mom was AWFUL. We thought she was so mean and strict because when my mother said something she was NOT fooling around. We tested her at every turn and she never backed down. EVER. Your kids disrespect and test you and you let them. Not a good message if you want to be more than the "good guy".

I can't even comment on all the church stuff because again, IMO it seems you are looking for something that can stop this divorce train. At this point it doesn't really matter if your marriage was valid in the eyes of the church because your marriage is over. There is not one court in this fine country we live in that would put religious "laws" over the legalities. I had two documents to give my attny - one was my marriage license from NY state and the other was the "church license". He only wanted/needed the one from NY State. In the eyes of the law a church license means jack. It doesn't mean it isn't important but as far as the law goes it's irrelevant. So when your W divorces you don't spend 16 months looking into what the church thinks because even if the marriage wasn't valid in the church's eyes the law won't care. And what will you do? Spend 16 months investigating this matter to simply prove a point to your W that she had no "right" to divorce you because the church thinks otherwise? Do you think she will care 16 months after the fact? She doesn't even care now!

I am sad for you because you seem so very sad. Your posts just drip with sadness and despair. And that does make me sad for you. Sorry if you don't like it but it does. I have sat here and cried at my desk reading your posts because they *are* sad.

[Startingover2]

She excludes you on her night, but talks you into including her on your nights? Kevin, she's walking all over you.

Sorry to be so blunt, but .......

She is. If nothing else hold your boundary with the time exchanges.

[Super Girl]

You are damaging your children further by constantly creating this illusion of a happy family.

I think I might be a dissenter on this ONE issue. My H and I have discussed this, and we also think it's okay to do things together, with our kids.

However...

There has to be a good reason for us to do it together. The difference between me and Kevin is, I don't go into it thinking...please love me. I go into it thinking...please help me show them that we can be a divorced family and still be happy.

[CityGirl]

I think it is very possible for a "divorced family" to be happy but I do not feel Kevin is there yet.

I mean, his W had to sneak in to put up the Christmas stuff, sneak home to sleep then sneak back so when the children woke up it seemed normal. Maybe I am way off base but that seems like a very bad idea.

I can see divorced parents getting together on holidays (or any day for that matter) but IMO this is taking it to a different level. What good is one day of "normal" (normal = waking up with mommy and daddy both there) when all the other days they could not be further apart?

I don't know, it just seems very damaging. Having a meal together or doing an activity together is one thing but creating illusions is another especially when the children have made it very obvious they will continue to ploy, plot and manipulate to have family time.

[K4D]

I can't even comment on all the church stuff because again, IMO it seems you are looking for something that can stop this divorce train. At this point it doesn't really matter if your marriage was valid in the eyes of the church because your marriage is over. There is not one court in this fine country we live in that would put religious "laws" over the legalities. I had two documents to give my attny - one was my marriage license from NY state and the other was the "church license". He only wanted/needed the one from NY State. In the eyes of the law a church license means jack. It doesn't mean it isn't important but as far as the law goes it's irrelevant. So when your W divorces you don't spend 16 months looking into what the church thinks because even if the marriage wasn't valid in the church's eyes the law won't care. And what will you do? Spend 16 months investigating this matter to simply prove a point to your W that she had no "right" to divorce you because the church thinks otherwise? Do you think she will care 16 months after the fact? She doesn't even care now!

It is not about proving to W anything. She doesn't care whether it is valid or not. It is about finding out if our M is valid or not so that I know what my options are after if a D goes through. If it wasn't valid, I am free to seek out a new R should W not want to come back. If it is valid, we are married in holy matrimony regardless of what the court says which basically means I am just alone if she chooses not to come back. In the catholic church, the court is simply a legal/civil matter, not a holy matrimony matter. The court can't determine whether or not a M is valid before God. All the court can do is say that they do not recognize a legal/civil M anymore and split your finances and assets and kids lives. The church is the only one that can determine whether or not the marriage/covenant is valid before God. So I have to stick by what the church rules at least for myself to be in compliance with the authority of the church.