No, yall didnt get rid of me that easy I wasnt done randomizing.
Don't let kids trip into things they don't understand; or ask questions of a six year about OM. If you sense it coming, deflect ... for your son and for your better life. Kids get confused and hurt when they feel they've done or said something wrong, as if they are the reason for all this trouble. It all comes unintentionally crashing down on them unless you remain vigilant. If you care about them the way you should and say you do, protect them in what you discuss.
Mine are grown, sort of, but when one went through a hard breakup and we discussed meaning of life stuff, I recommended that when he speaks of her around friends, if he has nothing good to say ... you know the rest. I don't mention their mom to them and quickly move away from any of their comments on the subject. Earned that right the hard way, and I have boundaries to protect me, and boundaries to protect my sons. Set boundaries for your better life, and as a father.
If they mention new Legos ask them their favorite color. Take it away from who was there. Man, have you seen the web site about the people of Walmart? You don't want to know who was there, only that he got home ok. The OM is just someone who bought plastic distractions in hopes it will matter one day when his true character can't hide in the toy aisle at Walmart.
Detaching is for your survival, not to manipulate aliens. It is an insulator against all the poison of MLC, while you work on becoming your better person. It eventually becomes second nature until you realize you aren't even doing it most days. It just happens, and it frees you. So does potato. When you hear garbage spewing forth, think potato. Why not? Makes just as much sense. My son used that answer on test questions he wasn't ready for. Teacher wrote him a thank you for making her laugh while everyone else tried making her stupid with bull.
Your professional identity. I read about the trauma often associated with retirement. A person at the top of their career, say a doctor, retires. A person who was defined by what they did, suddenly feel a total loss of identity. You never retire from being a dad, the pay suxx but the work is great. What you do at work is not who you are. A man should learn to be content with what he has, but never with what he is. We can always become better dads, better men, and better partners to someone else. Unless of course it involves zombies.
Stop trying to say or do things with calculated thoughts of how they might affect her. They won't and you won't. You will affect yourself, and get over caring if she notices. If she does, you'll find out. Only she'll be more angry than happy that you are a better person now, why not back whenever the hellll she says you should have been. Alien excuses and lies. Her loss. Learn it. Live it.
Timelines. Aliens don't tell time. They stop it. They wind it backwards. They rewind it to stay 17 yrs old forever. You got one timeline. The one you use to plan changes and become your best self and the best dad. How long is your timeline, and what are you going to do to stay on task?
Done randomizing - enough aliens - and zombies. Just some thoughts your posts brought to what's left of my mind, my part of the settlement. Hang in there Bradley, you are going to be the best.
wow. I have to read over all of that again and respond in full tomorrow.
good thing you wrote all this stuff. Its like that scene in Princess Bride where Andre the Giant is dunking Mandy Patinkin's head in the water... needed that. I did just get off the phone with the alien...I think it was the alien anyhow.. or could it have been the real her for a moment? better to think alien for now.
We talked for an hour and a half. She was talking about how today she finally heard the real "me". she finally felt respect and love. We laughed and cried and all that. I don't want to trivialize it because there certainly was a small part of me doing, as one poster said here, the "happy dance". of course the other part was the guy with the gun shooting at my feet (not sure about that analogy but I like it...it doesn't even really make sense)
What may mean that I am making progress is I was able to talk to her and listen, but I took everything with a grain of salt.
I know it can and probably will be different tomorrow. we will see.
what I learned though is that the threats and control, as you said for MLCers-- make them go Bat shite crazy.... tru.
Hi Bradley, Glad to see you've found this site. Hope you don't mind me saying this: "same sh!t different day" regarding your situation. I've been in the archives and found some stuff that helped me. In the beginning I did a lot of research you can now have some of that benefit. The first post is about 'Paddy'(who was/is a surgeon) as he went tru his mlc.
Love Delboy
Thought I would start a thread on things I've discovered about MLC and relationships.
The following quote is from the midlifecrisisforum.com site:
I would like to offer Paddy's Six Stages of Midlife Crisis or, more appropriately Six Stages of Paddy's Midlife Crisis
1. The Happy Marriage(23 years BGZ-before ground zero)
Love, youth, kids, friends, planning for the future. The usual ups and downs, but seemed to go by so fast that the bumps were not felt, the kids grew older too fast and life was good.
2. The Subconscious Struggle- Part A-No Clue (8-10 years BGZ)
I still percieved myself as being in an overall good situation. There were the usual stressors: work, teenagers, parents, bills, getting older, issues with my wife.
I kind of realized I was not quite satisfied with my life, but I could not put my finger on it. Looking back on this time I realize I was not the perfect companion, although at the time I was too focused on my own needs and struggles to see this.
I was a Dad, but still wanted to be a kid. I was a husband, but still wanted to be attractive to other women. I was pretty insecure in spite of my successes.
I was not totally satisfied, but was restless and completely unaware of the impending disaster.
2. The Subconscious Struggle, Part B-Very Slightly less clueless (0-8 years BGZ)
I was tending to focus more on issues with my spouse as the source for my restlesness. I never thought about leaving, but I began a lot of fantasizing about something different than what I had. I became more involved with exercise, music, coaching my kids (probably as a way to look for some distractions or fulfillment).
Still no thoughts of leaving, Loved my wife. Basically still clueless.
3. Fantasy Becomes Reality- Ground Zero (Tapers off over about one year)
All repressed frustration in my life seem to feel released when someone I have been fantasizing about shows emotional and physical interest in me.
The feeling is overwhelming. I imagine it feels like combining a bath in the fountain of youth, a rush of heroin reaching my brain, and the feeling of getting up on Christmas morning as a child, only better (I have only experienced Christmas morning).
I couldn't stay away from it if my life depended on it. It was a pull so strong that came out of nowhere. It was like falling from the sky, I could only go down. When you are falling, how do you stop falling down and start to fall up?
4. Can't Get Off the Train (or some trains do go both ways) (1-2 years post Ground Zero)-I still can't get off
Confusion, ambivalence. I still loved my wife and my friend of 30 years. I still had the attraction/addiction to the other woman and the fantasy of another life.
Back and forth. Cortex vs Limbic system. Brain vs heart. New vs Old. Therapy, depression, suicidal thoughts, anti-depressants. The pain and hurt of my kids and wife.
I had no Idea what I wanted or needed. I was still mostly blaming my wife for her role in this. If she had just changed, everything would have been different.
The pull from the other woman was like a drug (once I have started using I couldn't stop). I could not be honest a with my wife about contact with the other woman.
5. Fasten your seatbelts and prepare for landing. (Is this grand Central or Terrapin Station?)(2 years from Ground Zero to present)
Seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Things seem clearer. I see what I have given up and who I have hurt. I take more responsibility.
This has been about me more than my wife. I am no longer depressed.
I am slowly learning about myself and why this happened. I am continuing psychotherapy and have recently begun spiritual counseling.
My wife has been very patient and as understanding as a person can be. Although I try to separate myself from the other woman, I still sometimes break down and contact her and cannot always be honest about this with my wife. Although I feel like I am learning to be more honest.
The fantasy of the other woman is less a fantasy and less addicting.
I feel like I want to go back to my wife and family , but I need to know this for sure. I don't want to hurt them again, and it was also very painful for me. I want to move slowly and be sure I am ready before I commit.
I want to act out of wisdom, and not fear or guilt.
6. Stepping onto fertile ground- Feets, don't fail me now!
I'm not there yet.
If it is with my wife. It will not be the same as before, it will be better.
There will be much happiness and good, but also some sad things. I will be much wiser and will be a better companion and friend from all I have learned.
I hope to be mindful of my partner's needs and less focused on myself. I hope to work hard to keep my new relationship exciting and romantic.
Here's another good thread from midlife crisis forum.com
Just thought I would post Tom's excellent advice onto this thread.Tom K
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh, the life of a superhero is never easy.... Hurtin in Houston,
Take some consolation in the fact, that this is one of the best places you can come to, to discuss and vent. I guarantee you one thing...NO ONE else will understand what you're going through like the people on this forum will. You can take that to the bank...
Let's see now...your W will be turning 40 within the year...her child has left home...she's running again to get in shape...she needs to meet Internet man to make her life complete...she's moving out to get some space. All classic MLC symptoms as you undoubtedly have read about. Have you gotten the "I love you, but am not sure if I'm in love with you" speech yet? If not, I bet you will.
Like the others here are telling you, do not blame yourself. If your post is as sincere as it seems, you're probably a real good guy, and have the same flaws as the rest of us. Remind yourself...this is about her, not about you. Don't even blame the internet man. If it wasn't there, it would have been someone at work, or an old friend she met, etc. How they meet them is NOT important. The other person acts as a catalyst which enables or empowers them to give in to the disatisfaction they are feeling. You did nothing wrong. You may look back and think "oh, if only I did this or didn't do that, things would be better". Wrong...nada...don't count on it. Trust me...I've done all that soul searching stuff too. Everyone here, could have been a "better" spouse, in some sense. Could have done things a little differently in retrospect. But remember this...your W could have been a better spouse too. I'm sure she wasn't flawless.
I hate to tell you this, but more than likely things will get worse before they get better. Not what you want to hear, is it? Sorry. I just want to prepare you for what may lay ahead.
MLC is not gender neutral. You'll see many more stories here, of men who have abandoned their spouses and families, than you will of wives who have done the same. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen...just means most of our male brethren don't express their situations in forums like this.
Camille mentioned a few sites you should check out. I encourage you to do so. You will be better prepared to react to your W's problem if you can gain some insight into what she's going through. I, unfortunately, came upon this forum a little too late. My reactions were more of the knee-jerk response, instead of the well thought out responses that MLC'ers need.
John has also made some points you should really pay attention to. He is able to give insights that will enlighten you. Listen to him...he will be brutally honest with you. Read all the posts you can. You will find so many similarities in the stories, you will be astounded. You know that old saying...about finding strength in numbers? Well, you will find strength here as our numbers are growing daily...
Understand that reasoning with your W, will probably get you no where. MLC'ers wear blinders, and only see the "truths" they want to see. No matter how strong your defenses are...if they don't want to see it that way, they won't. Don't try to compete with Internet Man...you'll lose. Don't degrade him either...your W will defend him.
We talk alot here, of detaching with love. That is really what you must learn to do. But you're too soon into this to understand that yet. But it seems to be one of the only actions, that has shown to be helpful in situations like yours.
Use your time wisely. Rediscover who you are and what your needs are. Read about relationships and what it takes to improve and/or restore them. Your relationship with your W will never be the same. It just can't... But, it is possible to make it better than it was...I sincerely believe that. It will take alot of effort from both of you to do it. Your W is not focusing her energy on your relationship right now. Doesn't mean you can't.
Good luck to you, and come back here often
Tom K
Here is the second lesson from Tom. I think this advice is too good to lose amongst other posts.
Tom K
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HIH, I've given you some time to digest yesterdays lesson. I didn't want to overwhelm you on your first day in school. (Lord knows I've scared away abyssal and K’s Dad already with my brutal honesty) Get out your #2 pencil, and take notes. We obviously have some things to go over.
Yesterday we discussed some generalitiesEoday we'll concentrate on specifics. Anyone else who wants to sit in here, is welcome to do so.
The people in full blown MLC, make decisions hard and fast. Because the justifications for their decisions are typically weak, they usually refuse to discuss the situation with close friends or loved ones who may attempt to change their minds. This is why they withdraw from that circle of acquaintances, and often develop a support group consisting of people they have only known for a short time. Since the new group does not have intimate knowledge of the MLCer's life, they have no choice but to support and encourage their decisions.
I believe that people in full blown MLC are in denial. They typically start with the "I love you, but am not in love with you" story. In their minds, this justifies their decisions and actions. However, they soon realize that they are still unhappy, and become more confused. Eventually, they decide that they never loved their spouse, or that they have been unhappy for more years than they originally thought. They start to blame their spouses for their perceived unhappiness. In reality, what they are doing is their own form of detachment. If they believe that their spouse caused their problems, it becomes easier for them to "walk away" from their marriage. They usually refuse to acknowledge any happy or good times in their married life, because it defeats their own reasoning. They may "invent" or blow out of proportion, events that they feel validated their unhappiness in the relationship.
People in full blown MLC, do not want to even consider any options, other than those they have formulated. It seems they have a real need, to convince their spouses of the situation as they see it. When the spouse refuses to accept those views, or offers arguments that seemingly prove those points invalid, the MLCer's become angry. They need to convince their spouse, in order to help convince themselves. This is when their real hurtful behavior starts. If they can create an atmosphere of intense disharmony between themselves and their spouse, it only serves to justify all the decisions they have already made. When the spouse counters with kindness, caring, or compassion, it creates an internal conflict in the MLCer. You see HIH, they need to dislike you and what better way to achieve that, than by getting you to dislike them. It allows them to distance themselves from those people that were so important to them.
As you know, MLCer's cannot recognize what is happening to them. They believe they are still the same people they have always been, and that they are merely taking control of their lives. They often feel that they are the victims, not the spouses they left behind. HIH, you mentioned your dogs as being the babies your W and you cherished. You're hoping she'll miss them, and I'm sure she will. However, she is going to rationalize that you "need" them more than she does. She will feel she is doing the noble thing, by leaving them in your care, to give you comfort. She's proving to herself that she is a good person, and overlooking the fact that her other actions are inconsistent with that view.
Next week, we will discuss what you need to do for yourself. In the meantime, forget about the personal ads. Talk like that merely cheapens the love you have for your W. Two wrongs never equal a right, okay? Use the weekend for the personal hibernation you were talking about. Think about the good aspects of your married life, and prepare yourself for a journey you did not choose to take. We're going to help you every step of the wayEP>Tom K
IP:
Lesson 3 from Tom K. Hope you don't mind me posting your messages onto this thread Tom, but I feel they are excellent advice.
Tom K
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HiH, I hope you're ready for lesson #3. So far, you seem to be keeping up nicely. It is very important for your own recovery, to understand as much as you can about MLCer's and what drives them. Why? Because then, you will truly see that this is all about them, and not really about you. Oh sure, you are impacted by their decisions and actions. But they don't really see it that way. You are merely a speedbump in their journey to glorious expectations. They definitely think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. They don't realize that the grass is greener where you water it!
One thing you MUST come to understand is that the MLCer's believe their choices are the right ones. They have come to believe that they are doing nothing wrong. They have convinced themselves that there are no other options. Haven't you read numerous posts on this forum, about spouses who just walk away from a 10, 15, 20, or 25-year marriage, and refuse to make any attempt to save it? From the accounts of the spouses left behind, they usually felt that they had a good marriage, a good relationship, and had seen no indication of any real problems. Why won't the MLCer at least make an attempt to restore what once was? HiH, you could go back and review your notes from lessons #1 & #2 to find the answer, but I'll save you the trouble. The people in full blown MLC are consumed with themselves their happiness is of paramount importance to them. Everything and everyone else in the world plays second fiddle to their needs. But, (and this is a very important but), the MLCer's will not admit this to anyone including themselves. If they did, they couldn't see themselves as the victim. If they admitted this, then they might have to consider that they are making a mistake. Their own self-image could be destroyed and they will NOT take that chance.
Everyone has a perception in their own mind, of the kind of person they believe themselves to be. No one wants to believe, or be told, that the self-image they have is not correct. This is when rationalizing starts to take precedence over truth. Example: Have you ever received more change back than you were owed from a store clerk? What is the right thing to do in that situation? Advise the clerk of the mistake and refund the incorrect change right? Keeping the money instead, is actually dishonest, and akin to thievery. However, many of us (myself included) start using rationalization to not return the money. I've been overcharged before, so this balances it out.The amount of money is negligible, and the store won't miss it as much as I will. I shop here so often, this store owes me for my patronage etc. People who perceive themselves as honest and upright, use this type of rationalizing to justify their actions, and not damage their self image. They truly convince themselves, that what they have done is acceptable even though, they know that stealing is wrong. Now I know, that my example doesn't even come close to comparing with the choices our MLCer's make. It wasn't intended to. Its the theory that is important here, to understand how an MLCer can do all the things they do, and seem so oblivious to the pain and hurt it causes those of us left behind.
HiH, if you can now understand better, your Wife's choices and actions, then you are halfway home. Now comes the hard part, understanding yourself. Determining what is the motivating force behind your actions and decisions. It obviously makes no sense for any of us to love someone who doesn't love us back, right? Then why do so many of us make the decision to continue to love a person like that? Camille explained it very well on another thread. Losing the love and/or companionship of a spouse, rips at your very being. It creates a void in your world, which initially seems impossible to fill. Eventually, other things that are important to you can begin to fill that void. Whether it's children, or pets, or work, or activities, or whatever, with time, the void you feel lessens. You must rediscover, what is important to you. I don't mean sit down and draw up a list in 15-20 minutes. You must search for the answers, and let them reveal themselves to you.
Have you ever seen the movie City Slickers? Before he croaks, Jack Palance tells Billy Crystal that he knows the secret to life, and he holds up a finger (no IC, not that finger) to signify that there is one thing, and one thing only. Crystal takes the rest of the movie, to figure out that the one thing is different for everybody. What I'm trying to tell you HiH, is that your answers will be different than mine. The important things in your life are exclusive to you. They may be similar to others, but not exactly the same. Only you can determine what things are so important to you that they can help fill your void.
This is why reading is important. This is why going out with friends, or joining clubs, or pursuing hobbies is so important. You have to experience life, with all its ups and downs, in order to discover what is important to you. Typically, we spouses left behind discover that we have suppressed part of ourselves during our married life. Now you must determine what your needs and wants are. Focusing solely on your W and her actions, preclude you from doing so. This is why we preach detachment; not to be confused with abandonment. This is your time my friend, your time to let your answers reveal themselves to you. Understand your W, and by all means, learn to understand yourself.
I have to say that I agree with Mach. You need to try to start absorbing this stuff. Not just paying lip service.
I believe there is a difference between standing for your M and DBing. You can stand, that is what we all start out doing, but as you DB and learn and grow, you will rethink your stand many times over. Some choose to continue waiting, others dont. But you will be in a better frame of mind to make that choice from.
Are you on the alt? People are looking for you there.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
Part of the WORST for a lot of us was that we feared we lost the M we were to grow old in, and the person we were to rock on the porch with. I said "was". We learned as we grew. We felt we lost some set of values learned in growing up; and it was not our choice. It was all taken. We don't know why. We were just left knowing it must be our fault, our crime, and we are now being punished. We may have even allowed someone to convince us we deserved that.
FEAR tells us it may last forever, and 'that' can become more pain than we believe we can carry. If so, speak with someone you are comfortable with spiritually or professionally. Fear cripples us and robs us of reality. Hope lightens our load and lifts our heart. Seek hope, for the important things, starting with your best life.
As I pointed out on a different thread, the very first question my C asked me was, "What are you so afraid of?" I think wrestling down this fear of change, of the unknown, of the life we pictured not turning out exactly as we had envisioned, that is the first step down the road to recovery.
It's this fear that make us gobble up every little tidbit that the MLC/WAW throws our way and keeps up from growing into a person that is capable of a mature, intimate relationship with someone else. Whomever that may be ..........
Just my $.02
Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
Write something on the wall, so you are more visible....something only a Zombie hunter may recognize....
As I read and talk to people here, one of the things that I really see is the healing , which also helps me to recognize the lack-there-of .....
You are still new to this, but I want you to realize that success doesn't always mean a restored marriage.
I know J3B personally,and I will tell you that even though his marriage has come full circle.....that doesn't define who he is as a man , and a person.
Take any of these men posting to you and read and really hear what they ALL are saying to you right now......
They all have the same message, and all are saying the same basic things....
What are YOUR goals right now, and things for YOU ?
Being a great Dad is at the top, but you can't be there in that aspect if you aren't there for you as well....
