Looking for Advice

[Deep]

I think the omission of the ILY is long overdue anyway.

I get what you want GW, but wanting things for "us" right now will only add to your pain and confusion. You can't want anything for her or her part in "us".

Detach from that. Work on you. Gather info and proof. Give serious thought to the setting up of the boundaries and consequences you WILL enforce. Then just do what you have to do. You're slipping in your control of the one thing you can indeed control, your thoughts and frame of mind. Don't obssess over what she is doing and how right / wrong / explainable it might be. You already know what the situation is. Quit worrying over reacting to her.

[sandi2]

Good morning. I hope you feel more in control of your emotions today. Just remember that anytime we make decisions when our emotions are in control instead of our logical thinking side of our brain.....we're going to mess up!

Regarding Junco and his W being away for 5 days, if I remember correctly she was staying with relatives and therefore that was my reason for advising him NC. On the other hand, if your W is not with relatives then I think as her H you should call at the end of the day just to make sure she is okay, etc. Will she be with some others from the office?

I would let her calls go to VM and if anything looks urgent then you can respond. But if she's just chatting to be talking, then you need to be too busy to respond and wait until the end of the day to get back with her.

This constant "drilling" she does to you about every little bobble needs to stop. You are not her son. She is not your parent....she's your W and when she gets back home, I think that is something that needs to be straightened out. How you tell her is up to you, but you are making changes in yourself and she needs to stop asking you what's wrong and why didn't you do "whatever". It's demeaning. You are a man. You are your own person and being M doesn't stop that. You need a certain amount of privacy also!

I suspect most of her asking you "what's wrong" comes from her own guilt. She knows she's doing something she shouldn't so she's watching to see if you show any signs of discovering her secret A is still in progress.

I was thinking about just saying that she needs to think about our M while she is gone. That she needs to remember I am not willing to share her, that is disrespectful, the EA is disrespectful, as is the sneaking around. She needs to think about if she is willing to actually work on our M when she comes home or if she is ready to pack her things.

If you do this, then you will definetly tip your hand and she will prepare to either go deeper undercover--or maybe have a change of heart. The latter is very seldom. If you feel that you have all the evidence you need that she is still in an EA, then you pick the timing. Just remember that timing is everything.

Whenever you do confront her, you need to tell her that the first time you did that was not in order for the EA to "slow" down....but to end! This time she will decide to end it or you'll pack her things. Never tell her that "you" will leave. Always talk as if she will be the one leaving.

showed me the advice he gave and how he used it

If she comes back with that old excuse of him being a lawyer and giving her legal advise....don't accept it. Remind her that it is not acceptable when you asked her to stop contact with him. That's really all the reason she would need, but the other things I thought about were.......that the company has good lawyers and that the times in which they chose to talk is not appropriate for "business" call and why couldn't that have been done from the office phone instead of 5:45 when she's suppose to be in bed with you? (Do you think that was a TM?) I have read where some W's will TM while laying in bed next to their H's. They sleep with their cell phone under the pillow. That should be outlawed!

If she comes back with the old excuse that he's a "friend"....stop it right there and say, "Most people's lovers are friends, but I asked you to stop contact with him..period!" No excuse she gives you is acceptable when you have confronted her about an A and she was suppose to stop contact. Don't let her talk her way around it.

I think it will be good for her to be gone for the weekend even if she talks to OM b/c she turned to you when the suicide first happened, right? So, if you're not there by her side and you're not glued to the cell phone, then let her see how often her OM wants to pet her through this ordeal. He may go along with it for a while, but if he's busy, I think it'll get old after a while b/c he's not getting anything out of it. Just my thinking that maybe she'll see what she has in you instead of OM....but it doesn't "always" work.

Or do I call her on this tracphone while she gone...

If this is the phone you aren't suppose to know about....do not call her on it. She'll get into a fight with you over the phone and that's not good long distance. Besides, you've tipped your hand and she'll just get another one that you don't know about. She'll get better at hiding things.

I just want the EA to end. I want us to get back to where we were heading before the suicide,

Why has this suicide triggered all of this emotion in you? Is it b/c you know she's talking to OM more since the suicide or b/c you've discovered that the EA is still going on? What really changed from where it was before the suicide?

I will not (well cannot per DB and WAW principles) end the conversation with ILY

When she starts to leave, just say, "Okay, be safe now". When you start to end a phone conversation tell her to take care and you talk to her later. I've heard some couples who pride themselves in telling each other ILY before ending every single phone call.....and I think it gets to be more habit than anything else. JMHO. I understand about her leaving and while she's gone.....but maybe she'll notice.

If she tells you that she loves you, then you can reply with "You too" (if you feel you must utter something). Or you can say nothing, but keep it very non-emotional or it will get to you.

I just want the EA to end.

I see this statement more in the LBH's posts than the LBW's and I'm not sure why unless it's b/c men tend to be impatient and they are natural born "fixers" and want it fixed NOW. But don't settle just b/c you want it to be over. I think that is what you have been doing. When you told about your W still contacting OM but that you thought it was just a couple of emails a day......that is sticking your head in the sand and not wanting to face what's really going on. Just one email a week can be enough to feed the EA and keep it going. NC has to be the priority.

[gutwrenching]

Well, she has left for the airport and I begin the journey of working on me and detaching from her. Right off the bat, little to no sleep. She was up real late packing, stuff all over our bed. I went down and fell asleep on the couch, until our bed was cleared and then went to sleep...she didn't come into bed until and hour or two after that. As she left, she said she'd call me when she got in tonight. I didn't ask or mention it, she offered that. When she came into bed last night, I asked a simple question - confirm for me the time of the girls ski lessons you made, she told me, and then is there anything else with them that I need to know about. Her answer was we'll be talking and e-mailing so if I think of anything I'll let you know. So I guess my point is, easy/simple for me to allow her to initiate all contact.

I almost smirked which wouldn't have been good as she was leaving. She walked up to me smiling and started to come in for a kiss goodbye, out of habit obviously, and then obviously caught herself and made it hug instead. I found that humorous.

At this point, I don't know that I have enough to confront about the EA again or not. Guess need to think it thru a bit more. Really, all I have is the fact she called the tracfone twice on Monday and by snooping on the tracfone, know they talked for 18 minutes last Friday. Not sure that is enough proof. Will ponder that and post something at some other point about it. For now, I absolutely just need to quit obsessing over it.

I just want the EA to end - yes, I tend to impatient, that is probably why I say it. I also think it is blow to the ole male ego to be honest and yes I am the type that wants to be a fixer. I feel, and I might be wrong, but I feel that I don't get a shot at "us" working on the M if she is still in EA with OM. So to me, it seems the EA is the road block, and as a man, I like to remove road blocks and fix things.

I don't know that I was settling over one or two e-mails a week, the problem is I had no proof. That was/is gut feel because she has covered her tracks and I just had to stop checking so much, it was consuming me and that wasn't healthy. I realize a couple of e-mails a week is all it will take. I concur NC is the priority, but she is just going to lie to me and say there is none if I don't have any proof.

The suicide changed things just because it was such a major curve ball and caused so many twists and turns. First the fact that she turned to me initially for emotional support and then for the first time, I experienced the pull back; then the flood of personal/internal emotions the memorial caused for me, many of which were not M or R related. I felt like I had a good plan and good road map to take things slow and work on myself and detaching and all that before the suicide. But that event threw it all out the water, temporarily. It turned me into a full-time working parent (she has done basically nothing since this event), it put her back into her fog (noticeably deeper fog, very similar to when EA was strong/thriving except there is guilt/concern over kids), and I've gotten very little sleep (that will change tonight!). I don't think it has as much to do with OM as with all the rest.

I won't buy any of the lawyer excuses if she would ever try to go there. No way, no how. And the friends crap has never cut it with me.

So, for the next couple of days, I actually want to stop focusing on the EA and when/how to confront. I can come back to that and mull over this great advice, see if others chime in, and then put my thoughts out there for people to help me with. For today, I need a no anxiety, no obsession kind of day. I need to start seriously detaching and I need sleep tonight.

I guess I need to get voicemail set up on my phone, it's not right now. Yes she will be with one other from the office, a man whom I like/respect a lot, in fact it is the one she said to me the other night "just please make sure you don't confide in him about our issues." For today, she said she would call when she got settled (I did not ask about this/for this...she brought it up), which will be the end of the day, so that shouldn't be an issue. I won't send her a thing. She sent me her itinerary over e-mail and mentioned that at least 3 times for some reason. She mentioned it again this morning before she left and I just replied, I see that you sent something, but I never got around to opening that e-mail, I'm sure though the itinerary made it thru fine.

I do look forward to these days on my own. I thought I would dread it when I first learned about it, but now I look forward to it. She even mentioned to me that I probably look forward to the sleep, and I said yes I am and in fact, I will probably take a sleeping pill the first night just to make sure I get the rest I am lacking. At which point, she surprised the heck out of me when she asked if I had any extra sleeping pills that she could take with her (they are over the counter medication). I do and I told her where they were. I am shocked because I guess in mind, I envisioned her staying up late chatting it up either on computer or pay phone with OM. When she was deep in the throws of the EA, she was sleeping so little I didn't know how she was surviving and it was because she was up talking to him or getting all the work done that she hadn't because of talking to OM. So I figured this trip would be more of the same.

Ok, enough rambling by me. Thanks again, and Sandi, maybe I should go out and look for some cologne this week. You and Greek got me thinking about that one...the smell good/create mystery...wearing cologne is something I really never have done.

[rockedworld]

Yes GW, you should definitely look into the cologne.... if it is something you wouldn't have done before it will definitely create mystery! Maybe get a few new clothes, get your hair cut etc. Take some time in the next few days if you have child care and do something just for you that you usually don't take the time to do. Is there a hobby or a personal interest you don't do anymore? Or maybe even go to a movie by yourself or sit in a book store by yourself and look at books about an area of personal interest for yourself.

I agree with the approach Sandi is suggesting about contact while she is away... you have an opportunity here to feel more in control of the situation and gather up some personal strength to use when she returns.

[gutwrenching]

Rocked - as always, great to hear from you my friend. I'm sold, I got three women telling me to go get the cologne. OMG, I won't even know how to being picking some out.

I had thought about the clothes already, partially too because I am tired of wearing the same things...utilizing the always look attractive advice. Hobby or personal interest - nothing I could do in this weather unfortunately and my time is really limited. That's what hit me this morning, I almost wish it was longer. Between dance lessons, swim lessons and ski lessons, I'm going to be running all over the place (like usual) and I have already promised the older daughter that we would have a fantastic weekend (she was very upset about mom leaving) so that is my priority and you know what, I can call that my hobby! I will find a movie to rent to watch myself, something the W would never want to see. I owe myself that much at least.

I am listening and trusting about the contact approach. But as you can understand, boy this one still makes me nervous, just because she would get so upset in the past when I was too busy to make the time to talk to her or e-mail her or whatever. That was really a sticking point in our marriage. So I guess I need to make sure that I respond and give her attention when she does call, but not initiate it. The contact approach will be the hardest thing for me to abide by, I know that, it worries me, finding the balance between gaining some control and not pursuing, and yet showing that its not the same ole, same ole. What do you think Rocked? I know you said you dealt with the same struggles/issues...

[rockedworld]

You have a good plan for your personal appearance... regarding the cologne ask a woman who works there what seems to be popular or what a lot of women are buying for men these days...

Also - to create some mystery, are there some really small changes you can make at home? Can you re-arrange a couple of items... move a lamp, or even put the toaster in a different place? I say this because it shows that you are not letting everything depend on her. If she chooses to leave the M you will do things your way. It might spark her desire to be more involved at home, take "ownership" of home life more again.

About contact, I completely understand what you are struggling with. It is a very delicate balance, and very hard to do. You want your W to see that you are capable of meeting her emotional needs, but not pursue, not let her cake eat, and not meet too many of her emotional needs at this time because it enables the cake eating. Very hard! So, I think Sandi's advice is the best route to go... Let her do most of the initiating, respond in a freindly, warm way. Show concern for how she is doing, but always end the conversations first. Don't initiate except once a day because that is the right thing to do as her H. That way, you are showing that you do have the ability to meet her emotional needs, but that you are not a pushover that will be weak and needy and meet her needs while she is in a R with OM. Make sense?

[Lost Rabbit]

Hi GW definitely spend some of this time working on you, buy a few new clothes one you really like not what you think your W would like to see you in though, I bought H some Boss cologne for Xmas that is a nice one to choose. Get a haircut if you havnt for a while! How about music, buy something a little more up to date than your usual taste and have it on when she comes home, not too funky as you will end up looking too MLC too lol!

Also echo the other ladies work on your mind set this week, maybe a little planning on your boundaries, look up a few things to be GAL with, so that when W comes back these are on the calendar so you can also say we need to discuss childcare arrangements as Im gonna be busy ABC. Start going out more when she comes back in, that icecream cone so has to be bought and soon, just take your book to the coffee shop and come back laughing on the phone (pretend if you have too).

Agree touching base once a day will be sufficient unless she touches base with you about something important, leave it bedtime then txt her goodnight and hope you've had a good day, no terms of endearment, believe me that will bug her as she is expecting you to just stay the same, so MrGW getting on without her will be different. Just make plans to enjoy yourself over the next few days.

[gutwrenching]

Hi Lost! I always appreciate hearing from you also. I'll look up the Boss cologne. I will buy a couple pieces of clothing, music - good idea. Heck, i've been listening to a lot more country music lately but don't really own any...that one would be 180, I never started really listenting to country at all until this summer and I don't think she has any idea. Haricut - I get one every 2 weeks almost like clockwork.

Boudaries - that is something I need to focus on. To date, my only real boundary thoughts/focus was on (a) no contact with OM and (b) being treated with respect in front of the kids. The respect piece went well after I called her on it. Instant change. I guess at this point, I don't even know what boundaries I need to set.

GAL can be done but not in the traditional means. With a high profile job in small city with long hours and high expectations and a few time zones from friends at home, it is just would not be believable for me to suddenly be out with friends and chatting on the phone coming home late at night. Its hard to explain and I am not willing to divulge where W and I work, so you got to trust me on this one and don't think I'm hiding from something that just isn't comfortable. I need to find other means to GAL, from reading books to a hobby of some sort that I can do or something.

And I got it on the contact - you all saying the same thing. Touch base once a day, try to get her to initiate, if not, I can and I like the TM goodnight as long as it is very basic. She will be expecting more. She will be expecting a handful of TMs especially on Saturday (at least I think she will, since I've already that one under control, maybe not).

And most importantly, I have to stop obsessing over OM and contact. I was going to call tracfone company and get current minutes remaining on phone and then again right before she returns. I have not yet. Not sure if this would really be "evidence", would be easy to lie out of, and it might be better for me to just forget about the fact the EA continues. Thoughts from others on this?

[gutwrenching]

You're slipping in your control of the one thing you can indeed control, your thoughts and frame of mind. Don't obssess over what she is doing and how right / wrong / explainable it might be.

I took me about 5 times reading these lines for it to sink in. Sometimes people saying the same thing over and over but in slightly different manners helps...this is clicking in my brain. I have not done it yet, but it is clicking. I am hoping for some progress tonight. I think more than anything I need some quiet/alone time for me. Too much pressure at work and too many reminders (at work) of her/them plus sleep deprivation.

I took a lunch break (I rarely dfo) and went and bought cologne and bought myself a treat - a peach pie - for just me, won't even share it with the kids. Going to treat myself to some fatening food I enjoy that I would never have just got out and done with W around and I want to be selfish for a change and make it all for me. I've been giving and giving and giving to W and to kids for last few months.

[CityGirl]

Since your schedule is so busy each day with work and the activities for the children why not try and take a lunch break a few days a week (not sure if that is possible with your job) and do like you did today... something just for you!

I like the idea of a pie and good food! Heck, not too long ago I ate my dinner OUT OF THE POT with a WOODEN SPOON. If you knew me IRL you would just die. I used to cook each night, set the table... the whole nine yards. For one I wanted to see what it felt like to be a rebel against fine southern manners. I even left dirty dishes in the sink all night!