Looking for Advice

[rockedworld]

GW,
I have been told that MC is not helpful if there is an active A, whether EA or PA. Most of the time WAS will use MC to their advantage... "See, we tried MC and it didn't work, therefore I am justified." Or, they are just not honest in MC so it really doesn't help. If she is willing to provide total transparency and tell you she is commiting to making the M work, then MC would be helpful. Personally, I would prefer a professional to a pastor, only because I don't know that all pastors have been trained properly... and there are pretty high stakes here!

About the cell phone issue, I don't think you should confront. However, snooping is another issue, and there seem to be people who have been able to move the DBing forward by getting proof and THEN confronting.

Puppy is the expert on that... If you see him posting on another thread you can ask him to stop by yours and take a look.

About contact while she is away, that is tricky from my POV. That was my H's complaint as well prior to his A (that I was not taking enough iniative with contact/communication etc.) So I battled this question often. My conclusion on this is that when the WAS is in the fog (which your W seems to be) it doesn't matter if you are the PERFECT S and do everything they ever wanted you to do, they remain in the fog until that A gets busted somehow or ends completely... NC. So, you certainly can contact her, but it may not be received the way you would like it to be. I think you should contact her because it is the right thing to do... you are her H. But, not because you are hoping to get some kind of reaction out of her. That is one of the primary DB philosophies... do what is right for your kids, for you and even for your M, but not to get a reaction or response, but simply because it is right. So, yes contact her, but keep your expectations low, don't go overboard, don't pursue, keep it minimal... the kids want to say hi etc. That's my POV, but I'm sure there are others who would say don't contact at all... let her do the work.

BTW... good job on not rescuing her by doing stuff for her this morning!

[gutwrenching]

Rocked - thanks for the 2nd opinon on MC. I concur with your thoughts across the board. A risk I shouldn't take. We are not at total transparency, I should have insisted on it right off the bat, didn't, wasn't wise enough, now it is a fall-back option in my hip pocket.

Today tough but nothing like yesterday. Detaching not going well, however, not pursuing is going ok. I have not texted/e-mailed/called. I had to go to her building to talk to someone else and I walked right past her office without a hesitation but did look out of corner of eye and she saw me. We had a meeting we had to attend together, I was friendly, cordial, but not clingy.

W calls me a little bit ago (this is 3 days in a row she has called me at work, not common). I recognize the caller id, let it ring twice, answer official like I had no idea who was calling. That makes her say "hey its me." She asked what's the password to web site X: I answered with "the common one"...she knows what that means. Frustrated, she asks well then what's the user id and I answer "the standard one"...now she's pissed (cause she probably feels stupid) and says well I didn't try that. I say nothing but smirk to myself.

I use this as my opportunity to speak about the kids. I calmly say, "Lets talk about the kids tonight. I assume that I need to leave work in time to handle swim lessons tonight, correct." She sighs and says yes she has to get everything togehter for her trip, she says I hopefully won't be too late, then she stops again and says well, we'll see. She then told me what time she was leaving tomorrow and I nicely asked good flights or multiple legs or rough return flights or what. She told me she didn't know what time the return flight was and could look it up, I said "no, no, its not important you can get me that information some other time."

She was then looking up the item on the web site and chit chatting about the different types and I cut her off, said well we should go, let you figure out which one you want and I can get back to work. "Oh, ok" that was her reponse. I then said "I'll talk to you when you get home, bye"...i stopped the phone call. Believe it or not, that isn't that common.

Tonight is another opportunity and challenge. She will be packing for a trip. I will be tempted to help out. I must resist unless she specifically asks for help on something. As I read on someone elses thread today, maybe I can act like the WAS.

I'm also beginning to think that her leaving could be good. I need to turn 5 days of just me and the girls into positive detachment. The first thing on my list is to re-read most of DB...I need to get that fresh in my brain again. And the second thing on my list is more sleep! And the third thing is plan a weekend the girls will love, make it special. Skiing one afternoon, Chuck E Cheese one evening, maybe swimming pool one day. We will not sit around the house this weekend, that is what W would expect. I can make it a 180 that will thrill the girls and shock the W. Win-Win opportunity! I just got to pray that I don't get called into work this weekend, the threat of that does loom.

[sandi2]

I was too tired to go get an ice cream cone, but I have to remember to do that one day. When she asks why I went, what is the best answer you think?

You don't tell her what you are going to do. If she asks, then you tell her the truth.....you went for ice cream. If she asks why, you think for a couple of seconds and then shrug your shoulders and say you just wanted ice cream. Nothing deep about it, but it's just something to make her wonder. You know, being mysterious and all.

[sandi2]

she mentioned to me that the Pastor from the memorial service had offered to talk/counsel anyone on anything. She said soemthing to the effect of you could go see him. I don't think there was a we in there and I'm not sure what the you could go see him was implying, but now I'm wondering if I should have or still should ask if W is willing to go see him together for MC

It's my opinion that she thinks you need help with whatever problems you are having with the R. Guess she doesn't have any.

BUt I keep thinking about the ice cream cone idea and there very well could be that opportunity tonight, hard to say, but if there is, what a perfect time to create mystery, right before she leaves on a trip. Normally, I would never go do something like that w/o asking her if she wants something. But am I right to assume that I should not ask her, I should just leave. And if she calls to ask me where I left for, and I tell her, do I then ask if she wants something also?

What I would do is to make sure you where she is seeing you. Then you look at your watch and quickly grab your coat and say, "I'm going out for a bit." Then if she starts with the questions, just tell her you'll be back soon. Leave in a hurry and don't tke time to answer. If she calls while you are gone.....don't answer. Better yet, turn off your phone. When you get back, and she starts with the questions, act preoccupied. Tell her you went for ice cream. If that is too confusing, then just drive around for a bit. But you do not "have" to answer your W just b/c she asked you. My gosh, does she quiz you on every move you make?

If it is this big of a problem, then maybe you need to wait. But the whole idea is to make her feel like you have a life without her. You need to appear interesting and if you ask her if she wants anything.....then it kind of spoils it, don't you think? Some may not approve of this, but MWD says to do something to seem mysterious!

[gutwrenching]

Sandi - I follow, I like it. Will not do it tonight, wouldn't be quite right...but maybe after being gone for 5 days...sometime next week when things are a little more normal/routine and we both had some time apart to think, change, etc...that would be the right time. And better yet on the phone, I'll leave it at the house...then if she calls, it rings there. That too would be very mysterious for me...with my job, I don't go far without the phone...but a risk I can take for one night, short trip.

Hate to monopolize your time, but did you have a chance to see/think about my question with contact with W while she is on the trip to the funeral?

Thanks again, you are a life saver at times.

[sandi2]

So now what do I do. Not sure. Do I monitor, do I confront, do I wait till post funeral to confront. Do I keep my mouth shut and see what the phone will show after her 5 day trip. Do I make the phone disappear. Do I call that phone number a time or two while she is on her trip (now that I have the phone number). Do I send OM an e-mail letting him know how ballsy he is and remind him how much he has to lose. Do I contact OMs wife. Do I just let it going, knowing if she is going to contact him, I can't stop it, and just try DBing more and hope I become the better option. Do I ignore for now...I guess this isn't bothering me but a little because I was so sure it was going on, this only confirms it. I guess I'm almost surprised at how little it has gone on.
If I can get to the phone 1 more time, and get the serial # on it, I can set up an account on line and monitor it...unless she already has set up an on-line account. Hard to say but I doubt it because for quite a while I was able to and was monitoring her internet activity and there was nothing in terms of watching an account. That and there are a TON of minutes left on it. 700+ minutes.

I would not do anything before she leaves b/c it doesn't sound as if you have the proper time.

I don't think you should contact OM at all! Think it over carefully before you contact OM's W. If you have read an email or TM, and if you can give dates ....then some of the DB members believe in contacting OM's W....but you have to be careful how you do it. Some would say do it even if you didn't have proof. I'm not the expert on that. Trent could help you.

If you know the A is still going on, then I believe she needs to be confronted about it. If she's leaving out and short on time then I doubt that would be the best time to do it. IDK, it may give her something to think about while she's gone, but I don't think you know exactly what to say yet....do you? Are you willing to share her with OM? If not, then you could tell her you know the A has continued and you are not willing to share her and that it is most disrespectful to you as her H to have an A. When she comes home, she needs to be ready to go to work on the M or you can pack her things and put in the garage. (Just an example)

Once you have confirmed that an A is still going on, I don't believe that monitoring the emails, cell calls, etc. is very healthy DBing. There are so many opinions that I suppose it sort of depends on the individual. I think some get so obsessed with monitoring that they forget to DB.

My question would be what would be the point of monitoring after you know the A is going on? Once you get your information to bust the A, why torture yourself? Whatever you do, just make sure you have thought it out for three or more days.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm going in circles.

Last Friday.....bad mood....OM....yep, adds up. Remember though, bad equals good and good equals bad.

Talk it through with some of the men here and see what they say.

[gutwrenching]

Right now, only evidence I have of affair continuing is the one phone call on Friday. And all that doesn't add up in my brain...why not Saturday or Sunday when it was easy and all the time in the world. They used to talk at least once on the weekend when I was around quite a bit?

Remember though, bad equals good and good equals bad

With that being the case, she should have been in good mood on Friday, not bitchy, correct? So why the bad mood on Fri, sat morning, sat evening, Monday, and today. Four out of the last 5 days since confirmed phone call, bad mood.

Contacting OM's W was the boundary I set, but agree would need to be careful. My evidence isn't overwhelming other than phone records for Oct - Dec. And that is a big step...would cause quite a chain reaction/eruption I think.

Does seeing this one phone call, and then the foul mood afterwards that really has continued now for 4 of last 5 straight days constitute me knowing the affair is still going on? I'm not so sure it does, I know that is what my gut tells me, but enough to confront? Not so sure. So I too am talking in circles and will more than likely do nothing tonight. Treating her as I would a friend, I wouldn't want to throw that baggage at them when they are dealing with a grieving family. As long as something doesn't push me over the edge tonight, will not bring it up.

[Dane]

If you want to expose it you need more evidence. read my thread, Puppy tells what to do. GPS, digital voice recorder, etc.
Why should the OM wife be the only one of the 4 parties to not know? But you need your rock solid evidence.
Praying for you brother.

[sandi2]

Is there any reason she would contact OM except that they are having an EA (if not PA)?

The fact that she was in a bad mood Friday "after" talking to OM would mean that something did not go to please her. We could guess all day but never know. All I know is that whenever she's in a good mood (while having an A) means that the A is going to please her. If she's not in a good mood then there is trouble in paradise.

I've been meaning to ask you if you've read the tread on Newcomers, "Boundaries" by Coach. If not, you would be helped by reading it, I think.

[gutwrenching]

Have not read boundaries...but I will.
Do not have rock solid evidence, so for now I do not contact OM's W. Will read your thread too.