We didn't have any kind of relationship other than a couple letters before we got married - it felt right at the time, but I was overseas in a language course (not a marriage one!)
If I was looking for a homemaker I would be set. But, we haven't been able to connect well on the intellectual level. I don't 'regret' the M, but she views the world (and always has) in a different way than I do. So for me, part of my struggle is whether I want to make a relationship that is deep with her, or start again.
The attraction was funny - she's modest and as most of our communication was written, the pictures I had of her were when she was a few years younger and healthier. She doesn't take care of herself physically so her skinny stature (95lbs) hasn't worked for me. I guess I'm an idealist and thought it wouldn't be too much of an issue...many people's comments remind me that it shouldn't be.
I'm not looking for encouragement to go, but I guess I'm trying to hear something to "push me" over my anxiety of staying married when I have and continue to think that there is a personality divide between my her and I. I wish I could talk about our issues more to my W, but her self-esteem issues get in the way.
When I read your posts; I get a feeling that there is a real lack of intimate communication between the two of you. And it may be why you feel that you do not "connect". Holding back feelings because you want to protect her from them does not help your marriage. You need to each let the other know what you expect in the M. However, it needs to be done carefully. In your case, I think it may be worth seeing a good MC. He/she can help guide the two of you to communicate about these delicate issues.
We didn't have any kind of relationship other than a couple letters before we got married - it felt right at the time, but I was overseas in a language course (not a marriage one!)
Ok, so you rushed in; you aren't the first. Only you can decide, then, if your wife and marriage have the qualities you are seeking for your life.
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If I was looking for a homemaker I would be set. But, we haven't been able to connect well on the intellectual level. I don't 'regret' the M, but she views the world (and always has) in a different way than I do. So for me, part of my struggle is whether I want to make a relationship that is deep with her, or start again.
No one is "just" a homemaker. She probably has a lot of interests and thoughts. Sure, they may not be intellectually stimulating to you, but they are important to her. I'm very "intellectual" myself, and often am surrounded by people very unlike me. It's nice when I can talk to someone of a like mind. But that doesn't necessarily make a happy marriage either. It sounds appealing, doesn't it, to meet someone who is on the same brain wave, is in the same intellectual bracket as ourselves. But just because the people in our lives don't share our passions doesn't invalidate theirs.
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I'm not looking for encouragement to go, but I guess I'm trying to hear something to "push me" over my anxiety of staying married when I have and continue to think that there is a personality divide between my her and I. I wish I could talk about our issues more to my W, but her self-esteem issues get in the way.
A personality divide...I've never heard it quite like that before. My H is a complete computer freak - hardware and software. He could hack my computer and I'd never know it. He knows things most of us (unless there are some other computer fiends on this board) would never even dream up. I know very, very little about computers.
I, on the other hand, am a fairly gifted writer. I am published and intend to take it a lot further. My husbands only talent with language is in Binary. We come from two totally different places! We are so different it is amazing to me sometimes.
The point is, you don't have to find someone who likes everything you do, thinks the way you do, etc. It's up to you to find common ground and enjoy your differences as complementary rather than adversarial.
undefeated 24 H 24 S's 4, 2, 1 M 5 yrs
"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all." ~Dale Carnegie
We didn't have any kind of relationship other than a couple letters before we got married - it felt right at the time, but I was overseas in a language course (not a marriage one!)
If I was looking for a homemaker I would be set. But, we haven't been able to connect well on the intellectual level. I don't 'regret' the M, but she views the world (and always has) in a different way than I do. So for me, part of my struggle is whether I want to make a relationship that is deep with her, or start again.
The attraction was funny - she's modest and as most of our communication was written, the pictures I had of her were when she was a few years younger and healthier. She doesn't take care of herself physically so her skinny stature (95lbs) hasn't worked for me. I guess I'm an idealist and thought it wouldn't be too much of an issue...many people's comments remind me that it shouldn't be.
I'm not looking for encouragement to go, but I guess I'm trying to hear something to "push me" over my anxiety of staying married when I have and continue to think that there is a personality divide between my her and I. I wish I could talk about our issues more to my W, but her self-esteem issues get in the way.
You're being very vague about your R and your W. How are you different? Do you consider her stupid, do you have differing spiritual views, or just don't speak enough to figure out what she thinks or feels?
On one level it appears that you ARE looking for social justification for ending your M. I won't give it to you, for the simple reason is that I was very determined to end my own on numerous occasions. I could only come to my senses when my W stood up to my BS and gave me a taste of my own medicine. Only she didn't change her mind and as the name suggests it's too late.
Maybe she doesn't have the tools that you have w/ DR or DB books. Maybe she hasn't got a firm grasp on what she wants or if she wants someone who hasn't connected with her. My sitch was one of extreme codependency. We didn't figure that out until it was too late. Do you want to split and then figure out what the problem was after you can't do a thing about it?
Put your time in, work on the M and make sure she has access to her own tools to do the same. If there are more problems than you're letting on, fine. What I'm sensing is a vague "personality divide" that you seem unwilling or afraid to explore. I suspect insecurity on your part, hence the importance of her appearance. I'll take my wife at her heaviest and her frumpiest and still swear in court she's the most beautiful woman in the world. I always had to be honest and critical and now I'm alone.
When problems are plaguing a M, it's hard to see why you could love that person and harder to FEEL it, but that doesn't mean it's not there. Trust me. If you DID feel love for her, then remember back to that. And maybe you won't feel that again for a while. Do the work and get to a stable point and THEN decide. When things are stable and the love is possible to feel rather than buried under the debris of all the b.s. that a troubled R causes, you will know if you need to end the M or not.
Those problems, the schism of a distressed R trick us into believing that we don't love someone. Love hides away when we are hurt and confused and we can only focus on the problems and the negatives. THAT IS NOT THE TIME TO DESTROY YOUR MARRIAGE. That is the time to rebuild things and stabilize in order to understand what you really do feel.
Counseling. Listen, give, compromise, have fun and take care of yourself. When that starts to work, think about whether the M is worth it or not. Until then it's too easy to think you know what's best and scuttle the ship.
I'm speaking from my experience and the sense of loss that comes from thinking I knew it all. It's a ridiculous sort of hubris that I'm paying for in spades.
Oh, and more details about what your problems really are might be helpful.
~Mark
Me: 38 W: 34 Together: 9yrs 1st M: may '03 1st D: april '08 1st bomb: june '08 remarried: oct '08 2nd bomb: aug '09 --(W asked for D one week into 3 mo. trial separation which was meant to save our M)
I got a lot of hard, perhaps needed, advice - thanks! I was asked to better describe the problems I perceive.
Problem 1: MC hasn't been possible because our MC wanted to work on communication skills, but my W wasn't biting. We would use the skills to discuss problems, she would get emotionally overwhelemed (even with the MC) or feel that she was being attacked (she wasn't), etc. So she decided counselling was a waste of time.
Originally Posted By: undefeated
No one is "just" a homemaker. She probably has a lot of interests and thoughts. Sure, they may not be intellectually stimulating to you, but they are important to her. I'm very "intellectual" myself, and often am surrounded by people very unlike me. It's nice when I can talk to someone of a like mind. But that doesn't necessarily make a happy marriage either. It sounds appealing, doesn't it, to meet someone who is on the same brain wave, is in the same intellectual bracket as ourselves. But just because the people in our lives don't share our passions doesn't invalidate theirs.
Problem 2: She misunderstands me a lot, so I find it hard to have much deep communication with her at all. Example: Her email wasn't working after I had installed a parental filter on the computer...her conclusion was that I screwed up her Hotmail account, even though the rest of the internet sites are fine.
Problem 3: She doesn't do the family friend thing, so I can't get much there to make up for our losses.
Problem 4: She wants me home right after work, so I can't develop much there, either.
Problem 5: If I spend time reading at this website or others, she sees it like and EA! When I open my notebook, her face changes...
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A personality divide...I've never heard it quite like that before. My H is a complete computer freak - hardware and software. He could hack my computer and I'd never know it. He knows things most of us (unless there are some other computer fiends on this board) would never even dream up. I know very, very little about computers.
I, on the other hand, am a fairly gifted writer. I am published and intend to take it a lot further. My husbands only talent with language is in Binary. We come from two totally different places! We are so different it is amazing to me sometimes.
The point is, you don't have to find someone who likes everything you do, thinks the way you do, etc. It's up to you to find common ground and enjoy your differences as complementary rather than adversarial.
Problem 6: She fought to continue through school because there weren't any schools in her area. I expected someone who values learning. I was wrong - she values independence despite her choosing to be very dependent (in a needy way at times).
Problem 7: To know binary is to know language (same brain skill...different language). My W has a different way of seeing the world though, so a lot of what she sees is coloured differently making common ground harder to find. A more open mind on my side would help...I'll work on that. Our only really common interest has been the kids, but talking about things is hard beacause she feels she's always being attacked.
Does this help clarify? I'll add more a bit later (off to work!)
If you want to give it another go, then do it. If not, move on.
It's normal to have wayward feelings after a separation because maybe you were finally beginning to accept your life without her and then BAM, a reconciliation talk comes up.
What it sounds like IMHO is that you have been doing a lot more of the same. You need to change tactics. You've identified what doesn't work. So how about trying some 180's to maybe find something that does?
From this most recent post it sounds like you feel smothered, criticized, confused (because she says one thing and does another), and generally frustrated and under attack yourself. I would suggest that the reintegration process often carries these and many other feelings that you just have to sort out slowly one at a time. My husband and his buddies have been deployed twice (possibly going to be three times before this year is over). The absolute worst thing you can do when they (or a WAS) return is to assume everything goes back to the way it was. It is never the way it was; it can be better though if you can be patient and learn to mesh. It's sometimes a good thing - you get a new chance to start with your spouse.
undefeated 24 H 24 S's 4, 2, 1 M 5 yrs
"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all." ~Dale Carnegie
One thing that my W and I both regret is not trying to find a second MC after the first failed miserably. I think we both look back now and believe that had we had a different/better MC that things may have turned out much differently. You may want to approach your W with the suggestion of trying a different counselor. Let her know that you believe that these issues need to be addressed and let her know what the consequences will be if not addressed. Perhaps she will be more open in counseling if she knows what the alternative is.
Quick question - I got a call from a friend and decided to tell him about our M problems. I went upstairs to talk in the bedroom and locked the door (from the kids). My W began banging on the door (she knew I was on the phone) because she thought I was locking her out, and because she thought I was talking behind her back. She also felt that I was shirking my responsibility to the family.
I came up with a list of things that are building the anxiety I have after the separation. I also made a list of things I loved about her. In a nutshell - I feel that with many years of M left, I don't think I want to continue when I get ideas like “the marriage would be easy to end if it weren't for the kids”. Can you love someone when you don’t want to hurt them, but also wouldn’t mind leaving doing the D? If the best I can get AND give out in the M is 'happy enough' but not really happy, wouldn't I just be deceiving us both? A month ago I started feeling love (I think) for her and thought it was a good sign, but it isn't a "I need you" kind of love.
We went to a good but new MC (a psychologist) that set goals and wanted to teach us skills. W participated in session, but as my W said yesterday, she wants me to change to meet her marriage expectations. Isn't the 180 about being the best you, not the best spouse the other dreamed of? I’ve tried to introduce her to DB, but she hasn’t been interested. She said when she ‘gets a job and learns how to drive’ that she’d consider other options; in this economy, it could be a while. As far as driving, she doesn’t like me teaching her and has taken a course, but it isn’t going well.
Strange part is that she's a good wife, and wants to stay married, but our problems are like daggers to me. I think that if she got her self-esteem issues solved, we'd be able to go further, but she doesn't think she has a problem. Many differences and conflict begin as culture (how I or she understands what happened, gaps related to education, or expectations of M). Added to that, I’m very curious but she doesn’t like that in me. I expect her to enjoy buying a car or house with me not leave me to do it and then complain if I made a mistake. I enjoy some time alone, she feels it is an insult to leave her alone so I can’t just go do my own thing because she finds that rude. Yesterday, I went to talk to a friend in our bedroom. I closed the door and locked it so the kids don’t come in. She knew I was on the phone, but stood there banging on the door for a while saying that I had to let her in. Afterward, she said that she felt I was running away from her and the family.
Originally Posted By: TooLateForMe
On one level it appears that you ARE looking for social justification for ending your M. I won't give it to you, for the simple reason is that I was very determined to end my own on numerous occasions. I could only come to my senses when my W stood up to my BS and gave me a taste of my own medicine. Only she didn't change her mind and as the name suggests it's too late.
I’m trying to make myself want to not want the D, but when my wife tries her form of medicine, she reaches for the poison, instead.
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Put your time in, work on the M and make sure she has access to her own tools to do the same. If there are more problems than you're letting on, fine. What I'm sensing is a vague "personality divide" that you seem unwilling or afraid to explore. I suspect insecurity on your part, hence the importance of her appearance. I'll take my wife at her heaviest and her frumpiest and still swear in court she's the most beautiful woman in the world. I always had to be honest and critical and now I'm alone.
Insecurity – good observation, thanks. I feel like I know what a good H should do, but when we’re talking/out in public/driving/etc., I don’t trust myself to treat her respectfully when she says something I find “stupid” or ridiculous.
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When problems are plaguing a M, it's hard to see why you could love that person and harder to FEEL it, but that doesn't mean it's not there. Trust me. If you DID feel love for her, then remember back to that. And maybe you won't feel that again for a while. Do the work and get to a stable point and THEN decide. When things are stable and the love is possible to feel rather than buried under the debris of all the b.s. that a troubled R causes, you will know if you need to end the M or not.
If I did feel ‘true love’…I haven’t – ever. Should I try to fake it when my W doesn’t want me to stay unless I feel love for her? I was hoping to get things more stable this month, but she’s already unravelling declaring that my 180s/growth hasn’t ever happened at all. We weren’t going to talk about D this month, but she keeps bringing it up.
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I'm speaking from my experience and the sense of loss that comes from thinking I knew it all. It's a ridiculous sort of hubris that I'm paying for in spades.
