What can I do to save my marriage? Help

[Ready2Change]

Things have to change and it has to start with me. I have made so many mistakes trying to fix this. I need to follow my heart.

You know your W better than anyone on this planet. You need to do what works. Things that have worked in the past may not work now. You need to stop doing what doesn't work. It sounds like the changes you are making are working.

[Lotus]

Glad to see that you broke through the ice. Sounds like you are making good decisions now. Daughter might need to find a new coach.

[Coach]

She told me every guy always has a plan B in his back pocket.

You wife has a fear of abandonment. What have the men in her life done, have they cut and run? Listen for clues like these, this is a question she wants you to answer. "You don't have a plan B, do you?" That's why the texts got such a strong response. She has a emotional need to feel secure - opportunity to love her unconditionally.

Cheers

[robx]

She told me every guy always has a plan B in his back pocket. I'm going 100% plan A now.

If she's been unfaithful, she would know based on her experience with another man while having an affair. Think about it, her desire and fantasy was to find someone new & exciting and have a beautiful new relationship with them unfettered by the chains of whatever distasteful history you share together. They hook up, he gets what he wants out of her (sex) and then tells her he's not looking for a relationship or anything serious, her fantasy is shattered by reality, she now feels stupid because she threw away what she had for a chance at something that now won't be anything.

She's projecting on to you, saying that you have a "plan B" is her really saying, I've experienced this before now my karma is catching up with me and I guess this is my lesson for screwing around on you.

For what it's worth, you created mystery, she saw you possibly communicating with other women, pics of women on fb, you stood up for yourself, found your balls, showed her you won't be pushed around anymore and you will move on with your life and make it a good one.

Guess what, you did what you were supposed to do.
You didn't plead or beg continuously trying to prove to her that you love her and want another chance to be the "perfect spouse" etc. You took charge, you showed her if thats what she wanted then you were going to go after the same thing with another woman.

Fear of loss.

Crisis.

Her dragging you into the hallway to discuss what you're doing, who you're talking to, etc. All generated by fear of loss & crisis, it's real now, she gets it, you're aren't going to wait for her, if she wants a great marriage, it can't just be about what you can do for her, it's about what she can bring to the table as well.

Don't discount your recent efforts - without them you wouldn't have the positive momentum in the direction you're going in now.

You're not out of the woods yet either, not by a long shot.

The WAW fog is a thick one and not easily dissipated by this one time effort. She'll continue to push, to test you, yes she is insecure, that's the whole purpose behing a woman testing a man, she is insecure, she wants to make sure that the man she's with is strong, masculine and the right choice as her partner.

Making it easy for her now will also prove to her that she can do this again in the future, with little to no consequences so please watch for that. Maintain your self-respect, your boundaries, heck if she pursues sex with you, hold out a bit, tell her that you guys need to be in a better place for sex to be part of your lives again - seriously it works, she will want you even more because of this.

Keep posting updates, you're doing pretty good thus far, a decent example to alot of the LBH's around here ;-)

[Sleepy]

Coach,

Nobody has run in the past. I feel she now is becoming less irrational. Last night I told her there is only plan A. I would love her unconditionally and continue to do so even if she pressed me for a divorce. I would respect her decision. I think she responds to that better than detachment.I think she just wants me to fill her empty love tank which has been empty for so long. I know it will take a long time but I am willing to do what it takes. I told her that I trust her 100% and I layed my phone on the counter to reveal my transparency so she can do the same with me.

[Sleepy]

Robx,

Thanks for the thoughts. I really thought I screwed up, but I see your points. Being a masculine man with boundaries who will protect her is what she wants. You were right all along. I will follow your advice it has been spot on thus far. I texted her to go to lunch with me today and she accepted, but it doesn't look like I will get out because the cases are overbooked. Anyway, she isn't rejecting me now. I think sex is a long way off tho...

[Ready2Change]

Guess what, you did what you were supposed to do.
...Fear of loss....Crisis.
...
Don't discount your recent efforts - without them you wouldn't have the positive momentum in the direction you're going in now.

You're not out of the woods yet either, not by a long shot.

I feel Robx is very insightful. Slowly read his post again.

[Hose91]

Doc,

Yours was one of the first threads I read here when I arrived last month, and I've followed along with interest because a lot of your situation resonates. I thought I was doing the right thing as a husband, father, provider, giving her whatever she wanted, etc and was convinced that was enough to "fill my wifes love tank".

Being a masculine man with boundaries who will protect her is what she wants.

I realize everyone is different, but this is ground truth for me. I read your posts after returning from Cancun, and agree with Robx that where you are now is a DIRECT result of the work you have been doing for yourself. You became more attractive to your wife because of your boundaries, because you had self respect, and because you know what you want, and how to go get it. I'm a Navy guy, my career was flying Navy jets on and off of aircraft carriers in all weather and around the world, and being calm, cool, collected and confident was literally a life and death matter sometimes. I know how to do those things, but somehow in the M, I lost that, and now I'm working on getting it back, and its working wonders for the R, without ever talking about the R.

The things you've done for you (kids, balance in work, balance in training) can't go away, but there does seem to be a delicate transition between full on DB'ing (or affair busting) and reconcilliation or repairing the relationship. I guess here is where you go back and do what works (and avoid what didn't work).

Was it normal for you to cancel a lunch date? If so, then W may see that as a "he'll never change", so if it turns out you can't make it, then I'd say you should do something else to account for that. Not pursue, not grovel, just profess regret you couldn't do lunch, and instead you'd like to _______.

I told her that I trust her 100% and I layed my phone on the counter to reveal my transparency so she can do the same with me.

I dunno about this. My W actually had the PA/EA (for 13 months) and got busted, and early on I offered her forgiveness out of desperation to maintain the status quo or to try and rebuild the shattered illusion that was lying in pieces all around me. She had (and is having) great difficulty in giving that up, even though she seems to realize OM was a fantasy and that the reality she had was pretty good. That early forgiveness was cheap forgiveness, and didn't really ring true, but was rather me trying to control the situation. Not saying this is true for you, but it resonated for me when I read it.

This 100% trust is where I'd like to go, but its ok (for me and for you, i think) to not be there right now, especially with reasonable and enforceable boundaries in place. I'd be careful with this one. It's ok that she's plan A, and that you love her unconditionally, and that you don't plan to see other women, but you're still coming from a place of great uncertainty, and part of the issue was that she lost track of seeing you for who you really are and that someone else might be better. That's not 100% trustable, at least not for a while, imho. I'm pulling for you.

P.S. The gym coach story on the plane was priceless, but that must have sucked. Still, I got a good laugh, and surely we've all seen a train wreck like that where you just couldn't look away from the carnage!

[robx]

Was it normal for you to cancel a lunch date? If so, then W may see that as a "he'll never change", so if it turns out you can't make it, then I'd say you should do something else to account for that. Not pursue, not grovel, just profess regret you couldn't do lunch, and instead you'd like to _______.

I told her that I trust her 100% and I layed my phone on the counter to reveal my transparency so she can do the same with me.

This is the part that I don't get,
you haven't done anything but you showing her that you can be transparent?! Have her do the same, tell her you want to see her phone, unlock it and read her text messages and go through her contacts. You can't trust her, lets be honest, she pursue some type of EA/PA, the onus of responsibility is on her to be transparent. She got scared that you were beginning to move on and she starts asking 20 questions about what you're doing and dragging you into the hall to "discuss it" but she tells you that she's still pretty sure that its over but you confirm that you will love her regardless, ummmm.... NO! You stop telling her that altogether, you let her pursue you, she's definitely going to keep her distance from you if you pursue her and tell her you love her.

Look at the logic from her point of view,
she possibly/maybe/probably/maybe not had a PA/EA with another man.

You pursue her and tell you'll love her.

You stand up for yourself a bit though and tell her that you're man and show her a bit as well by standing up for yourself.

But you tell her you'll love her.

Her point of view, hmmm.... I did these things, beat him up a bit, disrespected him, kicked him out of the bedroom, made him feel like a 5th wheel, hurt him, treated him poorly and acted like a bitch and he still pursues me and tells me he loves me. My husband starts to show that he doesn't care, maybe starts speaking with other women, I call him on it, re-assert my authority, throw the lasso around his neck, reel him in, show him who's in charge, he doesn't fight back, doesn't argue, even agrees what he's doing is wrong without calling me on my $hit and then tells me he'll love me. I think I'm still in control here, we'll see what else I can get away with because reality looks pretty different when I'm in my WAW fog....

Here's a test for her from you tridoc,
ask her for her cell phone today,
"can I see your cellphone today,
can you unlock it for me if it's locked so that I can go through your contacts and text msg's and question you on the info I find? I figured I did this for you the other day, you should be able to do this for me."

.... and guage her reaction ;-)

It's fair isn't it?

If she gets all pissy, you'll know I'm on the right track and you'll know where you stand.

[Ready2Change]

Doc,

Would you list the books that you have read for me? Would you also list the "behavior" changes that you find to be working from each?

Thanks