WAW and 4 kids

[pigskin]

Wow. Your post reminded me of my situation but rewound back a few months.

My W wanted to move out to find herself at the moment of the "bomb" back in May09. I resisted due to thinking it would allow her to have an unrestricted affair.

After many attempts to break the affair I finally got to the point of saying "to hell with this" and told her she NEEDED to move out if she wasn't going to break contact with the OM.

So W went and got an apartment. Then she suggested we split time at the home with the kids. I said fine under one condition: you have absolutely no contact with the OM. Otherwise you can come to the home to see the kids and/or we negotiate when you can take them.

It might be something for you to try. Tell her she needs to break the affair and agree to zero contact or she moves out. You stay put in the home. Let her have her crazy existence. And don't accommodate any demands or requests unless she busts the affair completely.

Better than having an open relationship, in my opinion.

[pigskin]

BTW, I know what you mean about the ring. Pi$$ed me off too. But eventually I got past it. I even took mine off for a couple of days but then thought "That's BS. I'm still married. And I'm behaving no better than she is if I stoop to those levels". So I still wear mine, and I am comfortable knowing that I am doing the right thing.

[tryingtilDorR]

I guess I am at this exhasperation point where I accept that it is over (OK I know its never over until divorce ink drys) but for my own selfish reasons and for the kids it would be convenient to have her around for a few more months before moving out.

Maybe not a great idea - it is ASKING her to cake-eat - but when I used the term 'open relationship' she didn't like that at all. It certainly is a sign of my detatchment from her. I have nothing left to do but give up and it is just a matter of what is the most convenient living arrangement short term.

She is ready to move out she claims, but then she backtracks to us alternately leaving which I don't want to do. I figure we get S/D going, and then if she wants to leave before D is final she can, but if she stays we can get along because I no longer care about what she does. I know I should, but I am exhausted and tired of fighting a losing battle with her over OM (which she still claims to not be doing anything wrong with -just talking).

It has sucked up way too much of my energy and I need to move on and enjoy my life. Not caring what she does, assuming M is over like she says, and generally not getting riled up about anything she does is the way to go I figure whether or not she is in the house. For some practical reasons I prefer her to be there for a few more months I guess.

[tryingtilDorR]

She really bristled at the term 'open relationship'. I told her it is what she has already implmented on her side, so by just acknowledging it and accepting it I can be at peace.

She doesn't want to acknowledge that open relationship describes what she has done. She doesn't want to wrap her mind around that and face reality. It isn't my point with this however, I am not trying to get any reaction out of her outside of getting her to hold off moving out until I get established in my new job and allow kids to finish the school year without radical change.

[tryingtilDorR]

Some of my friends are telling me I should have some female 'friends' like W has been doing, especially now that W doesn't wear her ring anymore.

I told them that I used 'open relationship' to describe what W is doing, and acknowledged it and accepting it in order to let go of her so I can move on even though she doesn't agree that is what she has been doing in reality. Yes, it would give me the option to do the same.

For now my M vows trump all that - I won't stoop to that level and I will honor M for my children's sake as well. I always ask, "what would my kids expect in this case if they could understand what is going on?"

However, she doesn't neccessarily know all that and I can see that it doesn't hurt if W knows I am open to a few new friendships with people of the opposite sex now, even if I personally know I am still M and wouldn't cross a line.

It is interesting that people close to the situation are starting to offer the gucci/robx dating advice I thought.

[tryingtilDorR]

This really feels like the death throes of the marriage (it was already over - I know - I am just figuring it out now).

W decides that she would talk to S18 since he heard some of the arguments this weekend (not the first time) and in particular about OM. I asked her what she said and she said she explained she had a friendship with someone that was making me mad and that there were problems with our M way before that. She also told him that we were going to S and that we would alternately move out.

I told her I had never agreed to the alternately moving out scenario, and that she shouldn't tell our kids anything about any future plans especially if we hadn't agreed on them. It felt like she was trying to get the older kids to agree that we need to separate.

It was a conversation she had after a stress free family evening. I was happy just hanging out and bantering with the kids. I wonder if she feels compelled to do this to keep the issues on the front burner?

This led to a heated discussion. I told her that the kids just needed to hear that we are having problems and are sorry that they heard us arguing and that we are going to try to not argue in front of them anymore. she says we need to not 'sugar coat' the situation and tell them the truth, since a few months later we will separate and they shouldn't be suprised. I said they didn't need to have to deal with that until the time came. Anyway, we don't agree.

[tryingtilDorR]

The other thing that happened is that she tried desperately to bait me into a R talk. It kind of happened but I was trying to explain where we are now and the possibility going forward and she wanted to focus on the past.

She was angry because we got in an argument over what she told S18 and said 'we can't live like this'. I had tried to convince her to stick around for a few months on Sunday to (a) spare the kids the changes before school was out; (b) allow us to get in better financial shape to separate - lots of bills now; (c) allow me to get started in my new job before we split. I had told her I could remove the source of our prior arguments because I have let go of her and don't care what she does and won't ask anymore.

She says: "You are going crazy - nobody can just flip a switch and not care anymore. you have a crazy look on your face too." I then explain again that I won't ask her any questions about what she does and with whom - her personal life is her business and mine is mine. Then she tries to say that she isn't doing anything. I said that the things she did upset me greatly and that most husbands would have been upset, but I accept that she has been living in her half of an open marriage and now I acknowledge it.

She kept trying to talk about the past - why she was unhappy, how she got married too young, how I was a bad husband, blah blah. I kept trying to bring her back to NOW, because I am trying to convince her that I have really let go so that there is no more reasons to argue about. I told her talking about the past is a waste of time right now and that I just want to focus on what is hapening now, what was bothering me and why letting that go will make our situation at home a lot better for the kids.

She won't hear it. She doesn't WANT things to get better around here because she would lose her reasons to run. It needs to happen but I am trying to buy a few months.

[Sleepy]

Try to find out what she wants in a man and a R and silently start implementing those changes in yourself as you detach. Listen to her she will tell you. Don't ask. The friends with other W isn't a bad idea either. Think about not being a victim. Don't be controlling or pursue. Stand up for yourself and show her you are and independent masculine man who stands up for what he believes. I found that this worked for me and I noticed changes in my W. They are all the same breed. The A has to be stopped tho.

[tryingtilDorR]

Thanks Tridoc. Things are certainly changing and limbo seems to be lifting but not sure in which direction. I set some things in motion when I contacted OM's quasi-GF a month ago, and my recent change in stance about having an open relationship has stirred the pot some more for sure.

I found out later that she talked to my S18 about some of the surveillance techniques I used to uncover her A. I told her that our kids don't need to know any of that stuff unless they accidentally overheard us arguing or something. Also, she said she talked to him about S arrangements as if she and I had agreed to them and I told her that she cannot talk to our kids about anything that she and I haven't agreed upon first as far as future plans.

Due to the fact that I told her that I now accept that we have an open relationship in order to let go of her and prevent more arguments about her behavior, she accused me of being 'crazy' for suddenly letting this go and for other things (surveillance/snooping techniques used to uncover EA and contacting OM's GF).

TDR: "I did what I did (surveillance/snooping) because I didn't want to share my wife with another man and out of love for my family. I may have been a little crazy, but it was only because I cared about these things."

TDR: "Put yourself in my shoes just for a minute and you might understand why I did things. I am done with all of that stuff now and it is behind me. You are free."

I got the nicest text messages from her today after this - I hadn't heard her like this in a long time:

W: "TDR, I am so sorry for everything. I know you worked hard to provide nice things for your family and you did that well. It is just that you and I grew apart years ago and not just in the past year (since EA)." <she blames my focus on my career for our M problems and I tell her I was just trying to provide but agree>

W: "I have never and have not said anything bad about you to our kids. They love you. You are their father. I expect the same in return. The love me and I am their mother."

W: "I feel awful about hurting you in this way (EA) and wish we had separated in 2008 (before EA). I am not telling people you are crazy" <in response to her telling me I am crazy for digging into info on OM, and some of the books I have read and other things I have done to cope>

W: "D16 just left for her driving test" (D16 is getting her drivers license today - W never texts me unprompted about stuff)

It all may be nothing, but it is interesting to note. The change is that since she took off the wedding ring I told her I didn't care about what she did in her personal life anymore and am done. Last night she fought me on this point "nobody can just not care overnight - you are going crazy" but I stood my ground and also refused to argue with her over the past.

I just want a peaceful situation in my home until she leaves.

[tryingtilDorR]

The thing that struck me about her statements is that they weren't defensive. She is always defensive, justifying her behavior, trying to point the finger at me, etc. This was happening as recently as last night.

I have a feeling she had a dose of OM today and is feeling some guilt or something, or maybe our D16 getting her license softened her up for an hour or so, who knows.