Looking for Advice

[rockedworld]

Good job GW! You are on the right track... I know it is so hard, and it feels so counterintuitive, but it is what works!

You know, I really am not sure what helped me turn a corner in my own sitch. When the PA came out, and after I got past the initial devestation that came with that, it changed something for me. I had to come to terms with the fact that I needed to DO something! I knew that my kids' futures depended on the choices I was making. I kept reading on these boards, read and re-read DR, and realized I had to be strong. The encouragement as well as 2x4's I got on these boards gave me the strength I needed.

Now, in retrospect, I think the stand I took caused my H to see a side of me he hadn't seen before. I really believe that the DB approach made a huge difference in where we are at now. But, it was very hard.

When you are tempted to pursue, or show weakness... think of your kids. Think of their future, and that their best chance of remaining in an intact family will be if you can do this. And, you can.

Strong, cool, confident, calm....

Regarding the password on the phone, say it in the same manner as above. You might want to say something like "Because the phone was an issue for us before, I am concerned that there is a password on it again. In order for me to feel comfortable with trust in our M, I need to either have the password or for you to remove it. Please decide what you would like to do." Stay calm, don't let her pull you into anything.

Stay the course!

[Lost Rabbit]

Rocked hit the nail on the head, the reality check for me although no A was that what I was doing didnt work it just sent H packing. Letting H have his space was the hardest thing in the world for me, but probably the best thing I could have ever done, and looking back I know it was the best thing for me too! DB'ing isnt a walk in the park but compared to anything else a D/S its got to be worth trying! Later you will find you can apply your DB skills to other people, I used to get into all sorts of arguments with S(21) were too alike, so I started dropping the rope, accepting he would have to deal with the consequences of his own actions, what a revelation that was! and again later it got back to H in another way..

The Mcdonald visit was just ace, well done for handling eldest D's disappointment, I can just hear her on her wedding day saying what a fantastic dad/daughter relationship you both have. Just remember the old 50% truth factor, not sure what sorta meds W is on but I took some anxiety meds for a few months and I couldnt concentrate on some things so she may have been telling the truth which is why you got such a nice response. Just keep putting the kids and you first and you cant go wrong. W will just have to keep up, youve heard of killing someone with kindness, well you can do just the same by not taking the bait!

[gutwrenching]

Rocked - I appreciate you and the others with help on how to state things clearly and short. One of my weaknesses is keeping things short (just like with my posts), I can sometimes ramble. Don't think I'll touch the subject of the phone tonight, its too late, i'm too tired.
It is starting to sink in slowly to me. This evening when she went to the basement, W asked me "do you mind if I go to the basement to work on this?" My answer: "why would I mind"
After the kids were in bed, she says to me, "Want me to come up here to work on it, now that the kids are in bed I can work on it here." My answer, which I know caught here off guard, cause I wouldn't have answered this way before: "It is completely up to you where you do your work, I'm fine with it either way." I could almost see the mental stutter step...she went back to the basement. And I had very, very little to no anxiety over it. If it gets much later, I'm going to head up to bed without her. That too will be a huge change...that one might be tough on me. I don't think I'll sleep unless I take a sleeping pill, but part of me really wants to see if I get more pull back or a little pull in or nothing after a day of pretty good detaching.

You hit a home run with me with the comment on the kids...I can focus on them...she doesn't see it like I do, but I see a D as rocking their foundation and I don't want to do that to them. Focus on the kids future, that can be motivating to me.

I also probably need to re-read DR. When she travels to the funeral will be a great opportunity for me to do that.

I love the words on the phone. My only question on your wording is the "feel comfortable with trust in our M"...I don't know that she cares if I have trust or feel comfortable right now. I still think she was hoping the EA would cause me to drop her cause that would have been easier.

The phone was a HUGE issue before, too much and too irrelevant for this board, but I would have never believed a phone could cause so much turmoil...of course, at that time I was still in denial over the EA even though the warning signs were there and the phone was the primary means of communication. To this day, she has it set up so no paper bill comes on the phone (after I was able to quote to her how many TMs per day and the phone # and how many calls and avg number of minutes per day)...but that's ok, cause I have the password to the account to view on-line and she doesn't. They have not been stupid enough to use the phone for TM or calls since I said no more or I tell OM's W.
The only thing she could be using the phone for that I wouldn't catch is Skype or e-mail...but she could use her laptop for that too...so whatever.

[gutwrenching]

Lost R - thanks for the support. One of the things I have to learn to stop worrying about is time. I keep reading and seeing how much patience I need to have, but the problem is that we will move this summer and we will have to set up a move I'm guessing in April...and well that is stressful to me cause that is when she initially intended to drop the bomb and go for the D. Now that I am getting my emotions under control and working on GAL, I think I can live with this current arrangement and continue to DB and see where it goes, but i worry about running out of time. I've read enough here to know I am at an advantage with W still in the house and heck, even sleeping in the same bed (just sleep though, there is nothing more than that), the separate room thing only lasted 3 days before she moved back into our room.

[Lost Rabbit]

GW (()) April is four months away, a lot can happen in that time! Try and put the time factor aside as best you can as it will create panic in your mind and then you might rush things and believe me these things cant be rushed, rushing only sets you back and to go full circle if youre short of time you cant afford to rush things

Yes your W being at home and returning to the bed after moving out is a definite advantage! I found out about DB just after I made the decision to give H his space so it was harder but I managed, only thing I'd say and this is me speaking personally is that if a WAS is on their own there is more time for them to experience the abandonment factor than the spouse at home, not so much has rocked their boat from their point of view they still have a roof over their head and a family and getting their own way to boot! so working on detaching from her is more important for you. Yes its supposed to be for you with the side effect of getting a spouse back, so remember that as that will lower your expectations when she gives you some time then backs off again.

Keep at it mate your doing very well, and certainly all the moral support I got on here kept me going so happy to chip in!

[rockedworld]

Hi GW,

I agree with Rabbit not to worry too much about your time frame. I had an original goal of having my H back in the same bedroom as me by Christmas, and I ended up actually having our M fully restored the beginning of Dec. instead! About mid-Oct. I would have NEVER believed that! So, you never know what can happen in a few months.

Setting boundaries like the phone issue is very difficult when your S is not committing to the M. I ran into that issue too. We had the exact same issue re: H's phone as it was the primary means of communication. When I started challenging H re: the bill, # of TM's etc. he changed the billing and also, I found out much later, got another "pay and talk" phone to keep in touch with OW so I wouldn't know. ouch. When I tried setting boundaries at that time, I would just hit a brick wall or he would just find ways around it.

BUT... by you speaking up, you are making it clear that you are not a pushover and that you won't tolerate being treated this way.

Maybe given where she is at, you could word it more like, "Since the phone has been issue for us in the past, I am concerned that it has a password again. I don't want to have this issue again. What would you suggest we can do about this?" Put the ball in her court. IDK... just a thought.

But, the bottom line is that if she and OM are determined to communicate, they will find a way. There really is nothing you can do about it. This needs to be secondary to you. You can't focus on this part, it will drive you crazy. Let me tell you I learned that the hard way.

Your focus is on YOU and the kids. Your future, their future. They need you to take care of yourself, and to be the best dad you can be. Working on detachment from your W and the sitch will help you with that. I know it is almost impossible at times, but you can do it. There were many times I needed to take a sleeping pill so that it could appear as though I was just fine when H would get home. But, I did that.. and it helped.

[gutwrenching]

Thanks again. The phone came up this morning when I didn't expect and I didn't follow the script, but kept it very calm and let it linger and she came up with a solution. I mentioned the daughter couldn't play the game she wanted because of the password. W said I turned that off, I said obviously you didn't. W says she only turns it on when she leaves the house because of something she read about security on-line and doesn't want someone to get it. So I simply said, "May I have the password then." She knows why, so it didn't seem natural/right to go into why, she knows why and I could tell by how she explained things. She said yes. I said if you are worried about security, I should have one too and I will give you the password. She then suggested we just use the same password on the phone. So got through that one.

I did go to bed without her last night. I should have taken a sleeping pill, will next time. She didn't come up till 3AM. That was a big step for me. I did try just chit chatting when she came in, but not too much.

I would say there was no more pulling away or in after yesterday. Today is going to be ANOTHER daddy and girls day. My suggestion again. She isn't with us mentally, so why bother. I also don't want to be cooped in the house with her, doesn't help my detaching. She suggested she at least go eat with us and then let us do the errands. I told her I thought she should just focus on getting all her things done because even when she is around she isn't really with us. She actually agreed with me on that, seemed a little sad by it.

I also actually felt the anxiety coming back this morning when she was on the iphone and I counselled myself deep, deep breaths. It worked.

So about to leave with the kids for lunch and all kinds of errands. We'll be gone for hours and she will be in this large house alone.

[gutwrenching]

This evenings debate in my mind...do I say something. Girls and W are in basement and I take some stuff down there. W almost just out of her skin, she tries to play it cool, but she literally jumped a little and click on something on the computer. The guilty look was obvious. Debating on saying something or letting it go. I have no proof.

[gutwrenching]

Thinking it through, I think I'm going to let it go. Can't see much good bringing up the fact she jumped when she didn't hear me coming and then I'd end up looking like I was too concerned about what she is doing on the computer. And I probably did some good making her shake in her boots a little...make her a little uncomfortable at the house if she is doing something shady. And it could be nothing. Got to admit, if she were to walk in on me right now in the middle of this, I'd be clicking to shut it down too, not because I'm doing anything wrong, just she doesn't need to know about this.
I did see something I didn't like, saw the the OM's number still loaded in Skype. Again, saying something about it, not sure what good that would do; I'm positive she would delete it if I asked. But, I'm sure she has it memorized (hell I do, I saw it so many times on the phone bill). It is also still loaded under contacts in her cell phone which she gives me open access too...again, she probably has it memorized.
The evil part of was very tempted to click a couple of times and block access to OMs number in Skype...but I didn't.
And I was able to see how much a credit balance is on the Skype account...so if the balance ever goes down, well then I will know something (currently $11.27--writing here as a journal entry for future reference).
Will post how today went later...still a bit of the evening to get thru and given her jumping at me walking in, could be a little interesting. So far tonight, very helpful...I would say it was as if she suddenly realized she isn't doing her fair share and is trying hard to share the workload in the house.

[Lost Rabbit]

I wouldnt say anything let her stew about what you did or didnt see! What boundaries have you set with regard to OM, like her not contacting him whilst in your family home, or out with the girls etc. I cant believe the audacity of these WAS at times, but I do think half these R start on the net,email, txting, anyway its too easy to be secretive these days.