I hear ya, SP. I've felt that frustration, too. It is absolutely excruciating to see your kids in pain, and when that person hurting them is a parent it's even more frustrating. It hurts, it's frustrating, it's agonizing.
I also know the frustration of occasionally feeling expected to "be" a certain way when posting--as if venting and expressing the inevitable pain are just not acceptable. I think when you're raising kids virtually unassisted, and you're overwhelmed with all these emotions, you've gotta put them somewhere so you can keep going on and functioning and being a good parent.
M60 H52 D20 M14 yrs OW-old gf from 1986 bomb-5/18/08 H filed for D-9/10/08 D final 4/24/09 xH remarried (not OW) 2012
The chaplain had mastered, in a moment of divine intuition, the handy technique of protective rationalization, and he was exhilarated by his discovery. It was miraculous. It was almost no trick at all, he saw, to turn vice into virtue and slander into truth, impotence into abstinence, arrogance into humility, plunder into philanthropy, thievery into honor, blasphemy into wisdom, brutality into patriotism, and sadism into justice. Anybody could do it; it required no brains at all. It merely required no character.
Where is this quote from Smiley?
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
SP - In regards to your stbx and her behavior...I recall at the early stages of her WAW-dom that you asked a question along the lines of "but what will we tell the kids..." and her answer was something like "tell them because mommy is a f-ing bitch".
Seems she wasn't exaggerating, was she? She really meant that, and seemed to be being honest, not just flippant.
Would it help you at all to allow those words of hers to ring in your ears as you come across these low times in your parenting?
Remind yourself of her words everytime you've got a crying child who WAW has disappointed once again.
Her honesty (by saying the above) may be the key to your being able to get through this stuff in tact.
Once the kids are older and can relate to her on a different level, they will know what the truth is anyway...you won't even ever have to tell them.
Two cents here and not at all a commentary on your handling of your kids, just in relation to the topic; my therapist told me that she perceives "compensating" as causing the most damage to kids coping with having an incompetent parent (that's my choice of words). Having thought a lot about it and extrapolating as I love to do, I think trying to fill that void of other parent when other parent is alive and has the option (if not ability) of being a decent parent, damages in a very roundabout way and really shifts a burden of responsibility onto the "present" and "better" parent. Your child's assertion that you are a better mommy than mommy MIGHT (not "is" cuz I don't know) be an indication that you are overcompensating...you are dad, not mom. I definitely don't want to argue this as I think you're awesome and I am not familiar enough to make any assessment. I am relating. My kids' dad is physically gone much of the time. I am trying to come to terms with the fact that I cannot be their father. They have a dad whom they are connected to and his absence is part of their relationship and in some way part of the wholeness of that relationship, I can't fill that void. I am looking to involve other men (not lovers LOL, but grandfather, family friends) to contribute positive male relationships and modeling.
You're a smarter than average guy, search your soul. When you make peace with the fact that that IS their mother, limitations and all, and there is no amount of compensating that will change or fix that, you'll suffer less.
The torture as I relate to it is (as you've pointed out), seeing your kids suffer. It takes a degree of stoicism I have yet to attain to absorb their pain without suffering myself. But it is getting better.
Oh, one other haunting frustration is knowing that the crappy parent (yes I said it) is modeling for the kids. That sucks and I finally realize that it is BS that I will make up for that somehow. I'm letting myself off the hook for that. I model the mommy part and he models the daddy part and that's that. It sucks but it is a relief to take that heat off of myself. It is trite and it makes people feel better to tell me how I will somehow compensate for that but it is such a set up. The best modeling I can do is as a woman and mother.
I know that my H's mother described herself as being the mother and father to her children (though they had a living father who was just a jerk and often absent). Well, it bit her in the ass because they hold her responsible and have little appreciation for what she went through...she modeled somehow that it was her duty to fill both rolls and it let him off the hook. I don't know if that makes sense or if any of this does. I hope so.
@antlers -- "protective rationalization" quote is from Catch-22
@hoping -- hey, if you can't laugh at yourself, you can you laugh at? Well. I suppose, now that you mention it, nearly anyone! I had that experience at my 20-year reunion, too -- I didn't realize I'd gone to high school with so many old folks.
@Coach -- I intend at some point to bring it up, but I feel there's too much going on right now. Once she surrenders to the powerful logic of The Mouthpiece's arguments and signs off on the settlement proposal (heads we win, tails you lose), then I'll start in on the honest dialog. Right now I'm in the if-you-can't-say-anything-nice-don't-say-anything mode -- living the @Gypsy Doctrine, if you will.
@hooisermama -- that's it in a nutshell: you see the other parent parent "their way," and you just want to scream. But, as @aliveandkicking points out, you have to do it.
@DanceQueen -- no, that's absolutely right, this is who she is. She's never made any bones about the fact that (her words, her POV) I'm the better parent. As I've said though, the substantive implications of that are (or seem to me to be, at any rate) different when one is en suite as opposed to solo. As my therapist and the kids' occasional counselor have said, it's not (in their POV) that "she doesn't care for them, it's that she doesn't care for caring for them." Which, as several of you have noted, is intensely frustrating.
Fortunately they're offering a tango class down at the community center next month....
@aliveandkicking: Ah, friend, you speak wisdom. You're absolutely right about the compensating thing, and I catch myself doing it. I know I was doing it over the holiday break, but I felt so much that I just wanted to "make Christmas" for them, if you know what I mean.
But you do indeed have to let the Other Parent (OP?) parent, and you have to believe in your children enough to let them hurt and let them reach their own conclusions. The compensating, which is -- let's face it -- just another form of codependence, could be as much a favor to OP as to the kids -- almost like you're saying, don't worry about sucking at this, I'll be so great that it'll offset your parental suckitude, and the kids will still have a childhood.
The other point you raise, though, is another piece that worries me, and that's this idea of "patterning." What do Themselves learn about what parents do as they grow up in this situation? The soon-to-be-ex-Mrs.-SP [and N.B. @DanceQueen, she is no longer "WAW" in the Saga because I no longer consider her to have "wife" status] is no worse a mother -- and in many respects is a better mother -- than her own was. And as to the maternal grandmother, well she more-or-less gave her baby daughter to her Maiden Sister and bolted for the Coast to get a job and be an exciting working woman with "freedom" -- and this in the 1940s! Her sister is childless (and gleefully so -- which STBXMRSSP is intensely jealous of). So there's no real maternal role-model for the STBXMRSSP other than me.
But my concern is that there won't be a maternal role-model for Girl-Child Herself, either, other than me. My mother lives in Midwestern Town and isn't much of a role-model either, at least in the hands-on "Mom Work" sort of way (both kids asked me last night, "Daddy, how come you can cook so good when Grannie can't?" LOL -- in Grannie's cuisine, well-done is "too red").
I give STBXMRSSP major props for expressions of love, however, which she also never had as a child. They "know" (or hear, at any rate) that she loves them -- I'm just not sure they see it.
But of course all this could change on a dime when puberty hits, right? She could prove to be the greatest parent in the world for teenagers -- she's into all that stuff -- and I could be the old fuddy-duddy who can't let go.
But that's the future, and as Albert Einstein said, I try not to think about the future because it will get here soon enough.
What you say is roughly why I asked about other familial female role models to act and/or model in-loco-maternis. Too bad there don't seem to be any .... you might have to get creative there. Girl scouts? Does she have any friends with really solid, loving, involved mothers that she might be able to spend more time with?
I dunno where Miss Someone fits on this continuum, but that seems fraught with complications .....
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
Ah, SP--yes, we have to do it. And so we do. And sometimes we gotta get creative to do it.
Here's my deal--xH left to be with someone else rather suddenly (to D13 and me, anyway) when she was 12. This is a critical time for young girls in terms of their future relationships with men. If they don't have a solid relationship with dad and know for certain they're loved, they can tend to compensate for that the rest of their lives, choose men who will allow them to replay the dynamic, etc. etc. And D13 is quite articulate about her feelings, having been raised by 2 folks in pastoral ministry/counseling. She feels way, way down on dad's list of priorities. Their relationship has gone rapidly down the tubes because of that and because she isn't all that happy about forming relationships with this new family of his, even--and especially--if he's forcing the issue. So right now I'm thinking--yeah, not a great situation in terms of her security about being loved by dad. Unfortunately I don't have any relatives nearby except a cousin. However, that cousin--who is a high school teacher--has stepped up and had some wonderful, "let's figure this out" chats with D13. Likewise with her godfather--about 2 months after the bomb, she and godfather really hit it off, have a wonderful relationship, she feels very valued by both of them, they're both solid, stable individuals. They're also both very safe men who I've known for most of my life. It's a way of compensating; it's not the same as her dad putting her on a pedestal and protecting her from all those evils dads are supposed to defend against, but it's not bad. Yeah, I have no idea what will be happening in her life in 2, 3, 4 years--but I know I'm not counting on her father to play that father role except when he feels like it. There have been times I've stood back and watched her interaction with Michael and with Richard and just been so incredibly grateful that they "get it" and have stepped up.
I'm not all that worried about the codependence and bailing out xH for his lousy parenting--I will always encourage that relationship, but I will look for ways to try to fill in the gaps. And I could care less about what that says to xH; if it meets needs for D13, that's what I'm happy about. Along with maintaining a good, trusting relationship with her (which has been pretty easy so far), so that she can talk it out and vent and find support.
I can tell you for sure--and I work with inner-city kids--that one solid, positive adult in the life of a child can make all the difference in the world, can salvage their lives and their impressionable developing psyches. You're a great dad--no one here had the slightest doubt about that--and your kids will be fine. Yes, they'll have scars that we wish they didn't have, but they'll overcome. But wow--I can soooo understand your frustration, anger, and anxiety about Themselves. Probably the hardest part of any of this, but--as I've found out--it's the part where instinct kicks in and you can rise above, far better than dealing with my own grief and pain.
M60 H52 D20 M14 yrs OW-old gf from 1986 bomb-5/18/08 H filed for D-9/10/08 D final 4/24/09 xH remarried (not OW) 2012
@Kettricken -- yeah, Miss Someone is a non-starter there for an infinity of reasons. As for the rest, I think I'm going to join the Daisies. With Girl-Child, that is <:D
@hoosiermama -- best outcome from my POV would be for STBXMRSSP to do a little DB'ing and DB herself into a Motherhood-180.
Caught some of "The Odd Couple" on the teevee while ignoring a conference call (can't believe how useful the occasional "uh-huh" and "would you repeat that?" can be!), and this chestnut had me on the floor:
Blanche used to say to me, "What time do you want dinner?" I'd say "I dunno, I'm not hungry." Then, 3 o'clock in the morning, I'd wake her up and say, "Now!" I've been one of the highest-paid sports writers in the east for the past 14 years -- we saved $ 8-1/2 in pennies. I'm never home, I gamble, burn cigar holes in furniture, drink like a fish, lie to her every chance I get. Then, for our 10th wedding anniversary, I took her to the New York Rangers-Detroit Red Wings hockey game where she got hit by a puck! And I still can't figure out why she left me -- that's how impossible I am.
The other point you raise, though, is another piece that worries me, and that's this idea of "patterning." What do Themselves learn about what parents do as they grow up in this situation? The soon-to-be-ex-Mrs.-SP [and N.B. @DanceQueen, she is no longer "WAW" in the Saga because I no longer consider her to have "wife" status] is no worse a mother -- and in many respects is a better mother -- than her own was. And as to the maternal grandmother, well she more-or-less gave her baby daughter to her Maiden Sister and bolted for the Coast to get a job and be an exciting working woman with "freedom" -- and this in the 1940s! Her sister is childless (and gleefully so -- which STBXMRSSP is intensely jealous of). So there's no real maternal role-model for the STBXMRSSP other than me.
Yep, and H's father was worse than he and his father died when he was 6 and so perhaps the best we can hope for is that one generation is "better" and more present than the previous one. So, in fact there is a decent likelihood that our kids will at least fare better than their parents, which would be wonderful as far as I'm concerned. Yes, let's settle a bit, lower our expectations a tad...as long as there is some positive evolution, that's something.
