First Piecing Thread

[Hope4us]

Hi Rocked. Interesting question.

Do I worry that she'll pull something if I go away for a night? Not really. Don't get me wrong, the thought crosses your mind, but when I think about it, it's my insecurity more than really thinking she'll pull something else.

You've been through this, as we all have, and there are SO many things that people in A's do and say to tip their hand that I feel like it would almost be impossible for her to have another one without me knowing. Maybe a ONS she could get away with, but with all we've been through and her remarkable turnaround these last 9 months, I just don't see it, at least not at this moment.

There were a couple times shortly after the A ended for OM, but not for W (she still hung on even though OM had moved on to his next victim months before) that I went away for a few days (once for work and once for pleasure) that I was so sure in my mind that he'd be coming to visit for that good by boink that while I was away it was all I could think about. But when I got home and W was in a totally pissy mood, it reaffirmed to me that W wanted OM to visit and he blew her off. I even saw a TM between W and a GF stating that on one of the trips.

So yes, being as new to piecing as you are, those feelings are totally normal, but ya know what? Like I told Pearl on her thread, if she's going to do that or go there again, I'm done and won't look back, so if she wants to F it up, that's her business.

Hope this helps.

[addie]

Hi Hope,

It's so great to read about the wonderful holidays you spent with your W and family. What a difference a year makes! I really like the way you handled that trigger NYE. You're right - sometimes you just have to let it go. Thanks for putting things in perspective.

[rockedworld]

Yes, it does... thank you.

I might be crazy to think this so soon, but it really does appear as though my H is finished with OW. He keeps saying things like "How could I have been so stupid?" etc. I actually don't think he would go there again with her... But, what I worry about is that the vulnerability is still there that lead him down that road in the first place. He is working on that in IC, and I know he is sincere in wanting to get that figured out.

Sorry to hijack your thread with my fears... but your perspective is very helpful to me.

Also, Pearl emailed me some quotes from a book by Susan Forward (I don't recall the name of it) but it talked about trusting yourself as being the ultimate goal... to trust yourself in your own ability to confront lying if it happens again, to make choices for yourself, to know what you need etc. That makes sense to me too. You made some good points about what we have been through giving us the experience to know what we are facing if it happens again. I have to trust that.

My H also knows if this happens again I'm done. I've made that very clear.

Thank you! Hope you have a wonderful day!

[Hope4us]

Thanks Rocked. I think you and Pearl are right on the money. We've been thru the worst thing that can happen to a person and NOW we know how to handle it. And I think that probably will make us a better partner for our spouses because now that we know what they're capable of, we won't take them for granted. And if our spouses have truly learned anything, they won't let themselves go there again. And if they do....

Ok everyone, need some advise.

I've asked this question before and everyone felt pretty strongly one way, but there's been a little change in the circumstances, so I'd like to ask it again.

A number of months ago, I brought up the subject of the wayward spouse apologizing to the spouse of the OP. I felt like (and still do) that it should happen. To me, that would be the ultimate proof that the wayward spouse "gets it". Most people on DB blasted me saying that it sounded like I wanted W to apologize to make ME feel better or something along those lines. So I dropped the idea of bringing it up with W.

Well....last night W and I were having dinner at our bar/grill and there was a news report on the big screen about Tiger Woods and more of the crap coming out about him and his women (how many we up to now?). We started discussing a show we had watched Tues night about the whole Tiger mess. During that show, they interviewed one of his harem. I won't go into the whole conversation, but at one point in the interview, the news person asked the girl (and yes she was a girl, not a woman) if she felt like she owed Tiger's wife an apology. My W was out of the room at that time, so last night when we were talking about it, I told her that part and W said "HE** yes she does!" I didn't say anything because I wasn't exactly sure how or what to say, but now that I've thought about it some more, I have two thoughts and want your opinions.

First thought is I ask W if she'd ever considered sending OMW an apology note. Heck, I don't know, maybe she already did but just didn't tell me about it. If she thinks it's a good idea, encourage her to do it.

Second thought is I ask the same question and if W thinks it's a good idea, tell W to write it out but not send it. Kind of a way to cleanse the soul.

This far post A, I'm not sure what she'd be apologizing for. To make herself feel better or because she truly is remorseful for what she did to OMW. And does that just open a wound in OMW? Would she be looking for forgiveness from OMW when I will NEVER forgive OM and W might be disappointed in the response?I know I have no desire to hear from OM, even though he does owe me an apology. If he did I'd probably say/do some things I really don't want to. What happens if W sends the apology to OMW and the next time she talks to OM, she tells him and that triggers him to contact W?

I've got a whole bunch more thoughts, but I want yours. I am kind of leaning towards the second one, let her get her feelings out, but not send it.

BTW...we had a great night. I got to fall asleep with a hot woman in my arms and there wasn't even any And it was the best feeling ever.

Ok, Opinions?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Ok, Opinions?

Yeah: still "Hell no."

C'mon, what's really changed since everyone gave you a strong, consensus opinion on this the last time you brought it up, H4U? One news report on Tiger Woods, and you're wife's innocuous comment on it (that she may not even remember she said)??

You're obsessing over this, in my opinion. Stop trying to "fix" her.

Puppy

[kat727]

Ditto. If at some time your wife decides to do that on her own fine but I think you need to get that idea out of your head. You are not her parent walking her over to OM exwife's house to apologize for what she did. Let it go already.

I am happy that things are going well for you both. Work on things between you and leave the "extra" people out of it.

hugs, kat

[Hope4us]

Ok guys. I disagree with you, but I'll trust your judgement.

Kat, It seemed like last night she had decided it needed to be done. That's why I even brought the subject up. Honestly, the way she said it, it was almost like she wanted me to say something.

Puppy, What has changed is that she's pretty darn fog free and is seeing clearly and for her to respond like that during our discussion kind of leads me to believe she's truly taking responsibility for her actions and if an apology to OMW is something that she agrees needs to be done, then why not in the course of "our" discussions, simply ask her IF she'd ever considered sending OMW that apology? Given that, I don't see it as trying to fix her, but help her with deal with that guilt that she still struggles with.

Again, I never said I was going to force her to do it. I was just going to bring it up in conversation and let the convo go from there.

For me, it's enough that she responded the way she did. But I can see a huge benefit in her writing an apology, even if she doesn't send it, to help in forgiving herself.

I posted this before, but when we were in Fla in Nov, I asked her if she'd forgiven herself and she said she thought she had, but when I bring it up, she thinks maybe she hasn't. That kind of tells me that if she doesn't think about it, she doesn't think about it so if there's something that brings some of that stuff out and gets her to really think about it, then why not? And if writing an apology letter, even without sending it, helps her in that regard, why not?

One other interesting thing from last night. We were talking to the bartender. She's a nice woman, 21 yrs old. She was telling us about this guy she'd gone out with a couple times and she found out he's married. This guy told her he'd been separated for a couple years but couldn't afford a D. His wife and kids are living in Fla and he was in Ohio because he's moving here and starting his life over. The bartender said she was ok with dating him if he'd been separated for 2 years and was going to D, but then she learned that he recently went to see his kids and stayed with his W (but I'm sleeping on the couch) and then the dik admitted he'd slept with his wife while he was home. So the bartender said "uh...we're done, I'm not dating a married man" and my W said "DON'T GO THERE, YOU DESERVE SO MUCH MORE"! Wow. Oh how the times have changed.

Given that conversation and the comments about an apology, I just thought maybe it would be a good thing to discuss.

Go ahead, rip away.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I hardly know where to begin. Seriously. It's like you have this desire to touch the 3rd rail or something, and keep asking everyone if we think it's a good idea.

[Hope4us]

Puppy, you seem angry.

These are the types of things that, IMHO, make piecing different from when you're posting on the Infidelity or Newcomers board.

Things that you would never do there, like "fix" your spouse, etc become different because you're truly communicating with your spouse.

Lets say in the course of your daily life, your spouse has an arguement with their mother. W tells you the story and in your mind you can see where W wasn't understanding her mom or there was a misunderstanding that caused the disagreement. Would you not say to your W, Honey, did you consider xx? And if she said "oh crap, I didn't think about that, maybe I owe her an apology", would you not say "you might be right"?

I'm not saying an A is anything like an arguement between a mother and child, but isn't it the same theory?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

OK, ***see my thoughts in red, below.

Ok guys. I disagree with you, but I'll trust your judgement.

***But let me tell you all how you're wrong . . . right?

Kat, It seemed like last night she had decided it needed to be done. That's why I even brought the subject up. Honestly, the way she said it, it was almost like she wanted me to say something.

***Go back and re-read your initial post to us, H4U. SHE WASN'T EVEN IN THE ROOM WHEN THAT PART OF THE NEWS REPORT CAME UP. You brought it upon yourself to repeat it, for her, just to see what kind of reaction you could get from her!

Puppy, What has changed is that she's pretty darn fog free

***so naturally you feel now is a good time to try and "fix her" . . .

and is seeing clearly and for her to respond like that during our discussion kind of leads me to believe she's truly taking responsibility for her actions and if an apology to OMW is something that she agrees needs to be done, then why not in the course of "our" discussions . . .

***Let me ask you something:

Well....last night W and I were having dinner at our bar/grill and there was a news report on the big screen about Tiger Woods and more of the crap coming out about him and his women (how many we up to now?). We started discussing a show we had watched Tues night about the whole Tiger mess.

*** . . . did YOU initiate the "discussion," or did she?

, simply ask her IF she'd ever considered sending OMW that apology? Given that, I don't see it as trying to fix her,

***I know you don't see it that way; that's why I'm trying to point it out to you.

but help her with deal with that guilt that she still struggles with.

Again, I never said I was going to force her to do it. I was just going to bring it up in conversation and let the convo go from there.

***And it's not just because you're not suggesting you FORCE it that we think it's a bad idea! Have you ever heard of the term "let sleeping dogs lie"??

H4U, you know I have the utmost respect for you, and how you handled your sitch. I've told you -- sincerely -- that I don't think I could have done it. You're at an amazing place with your wife right now, considering what happened and how long it took her to come to her senses, but it's BECAUSE of that miracle that I don't want to see you blow it.

I've brought this up to you before, and who knows, maybe I'm the only one who sees this, but I see in you an unhealthy obsession with wanting to talk about affairs with your wife. You seem to want to take every TV show, every movie you watch, every Oprah episode or song on the radio or whatever, as a reason to want . . . shall I say "a teachable moment" with your wife? About infidelity? It's as if you're taking a stance of "You didn't used to see how broken and wrong you were, but I'm SO glad you're fog-free now, and I can show it to you. Don't you agree, wife, that this is really wrong? Can you even BELIEVE how society views this thing called adultery? You're so lucky to have ol' Hope4Us here to point this out to you, and help you thru it . . ."

Now, obviously I'm exaggerating here, for effect, but I HAVE mentioned this to you before. You've done this with your wife several times now, and precisely BECAUSE she is a stubborn, "I-don't-wanna-dwell-on-my-own-chit" kinda gal (I should know; I'm also married to one, remember???) that I think YOU'RE PLAYING WITH FIRE TO KEEP DOING THIS.

For me, it's enough that she responded the way she did.

***Apparently, it's not . . .

But I can see a huge benefit in her writing an apology, even if she doesn't send it, to help in forgiving herself.

****THIS JUST SCREAMS, "I AM TRYING TO FIX HER!!!"

I posted this before, but when we were in Fla in Nov, I asked her if she'd forgiven herself and she said she thought she had, but when I bring it up, she thinks maybe she hasn't. That kind of tells me that if she doesn't think about it, she doesn't think about it so if there's something

***or someONE? you, maybe???

that brings some of that stuff out and gets her to really think about it, then why not? And if writing an apology letter, even without sending it, helps her in that regard, why not?

One other interesting thing from last night. We were talking to the bartender. She's a nice woman, 21 yrs old. She was telling us about this guy she'd gone out with a couple times and she found out he's married. This guy told her he'd been separated for a couple years but couldn't afford a D. His wife and kids are living in Fla and he was in Ohio because he's moving here and starting his life over. The bartender said she was ok with dating him if he'd been separated for 2 years and was going to D, but then she learned that he recently went to see his kids and stayed with his W (but I'm sleeping on the couch) and then the dik admitted he'd slept with his wife while he was home. So the bartender said "uh...we're done, I'm not dating a married man" and my W said "DON'T GO THERE, YOU DESERVE SO MUCH MORE"! Wow. Oh how the times have changed.

Given that conversation and the comments about an apology, I just thought maybe it would be a good thing to discuss.

Go ahead, rip away.

***Consider yourself ripped.

Puppy