Looking for Advice

[rockedworld]

OH I know... been there, done that... excruciating.
BUT... I agree with the others that her behavior towards you recently is a really good sign.

My H has told me now that we are piecing things back together and he has re-committed to the M that the combination of me meeting some of those needs when he really needed it (as opposed to OW's demanding, selfish ways)with the backing off and not pressuring him (as opposed to OW's demanding, selfish ways) had a huge impact. But, it took him some time to shift his thinking away from the script he had been operating from to justify everything. During that time, I had to ride that very painful roller coaster of getting close, pulling back, getting close, pulling back etc.

Ride it out, be a great dad, be supportive but not pressuring. And have your boundaries in place. You are doing a great job in a "gut wrenching" sitch. We are in your corner!

[gutwrenching]

A roller coaster is the PERFECT description. I don't know about you, but I find myself each evening wondering which direction the roller coaster will be heading. I have found it can be emotionally draining!

[sandi2]

I am not surprised at your W's actions. When she told you thanks and that you had been wonderful.....that was as if she was saying, "You were a good friend when I needed you, but now everything goes back the way it was before the suicide happened".

I feel like I am the bearer of bad news, but I have to tell you men what to expect and not to get your hopes all swelled at the slightest response from your WAW. Yes, there seem to be some positive moments....and I still think it is a good sign, however, she is putting up her wall b/c you are applying pressure.

To try to show what I mean, look at your statements. The first sentence is great:

No overkill, no TM to see how she is doing.

You did not TM her to see how she's doing. That was great! But then look at the very next sentence that came out of your mouth:

I stopped by to see how she was doing

You thought that was not over-kill? It was worse than TM.

and ask a question

You were looking for an excuse!

and she saw me and said just a minute. I waited about 10 miutes

She had put the wall up and that was her way of letting you know that she is not interested in whatever you wanted to say to her. So, what do you do? How do you handle that rejection? This is what you did:

and then left, sent her a text saying she is too busy, I understand, here's what I wanted to ask you, I'm going back to my office now. No response now 2.5 hours later. And so I wait...

This SREAMS "needy, neeedy, needy"! Let's break it down.....first you leave....and that is what you should have done (and a lot sooner if she did not have somebody with her or in a serious phone conversation at the time). But then you act like a kind of like a whimp and TM her to let her know how hurt you are at her rejection. (You may have thought you were covering it up...but you didn't.) After that, you go on and ask her your question, even though she was not interested enough to see what you wanted when you dropped by. Then you act so pitiful by letting her know that you are going back to your office now. I'm sorry if I sound hateful, but that is so clinging awful. Can you see how this is not showing her a man of strength, self-respect, health self-esteem, and some backbone? Can you see that it is "pressure" on her to show you some attention? That is what you wanted and it is very obvious. You wait 2.5 hrs to see if she's going to respond to that TN. Why? If you were the WAS, you would not be attracted to her when she was all whiney and complaining to you. You would be attracted to a self-efficient, spunky, sexy, female. Not some little whimp who was wrapped aound your lefs trying to get you to stay with her. Try to look at it from that position b/c I promise that is what your W is seeing in you.

Go find that man that was there the other night. You di so good when you went to bed and waited for her to make the move toward you. This is a law in human nature when a WAS is involved: You pull back....she moves in. You push her....and she backs away. Just keep remembering that rule and live by it. You are scared and it shows. It is not attractive to her. I saw it in my H and it did not make me want to pour my love out on him. It turned me off. The more desparate he became, the more unattractive he was.

Don't tuck your tail between your legs like a whipped dog. You are a man who can be a H that a woman would be crazy to leave. You had a backslide.....tomorrow will be better, if you so determine.

Get some sleep and start off with a fresh slate in the morning.

[rockedworld]

Yes, GW, but that is the part about detaching that you've got to work on. Believe me, I know how hard that is. That was probably the hardest part for me, and I don't know that I ever really did a good job of it. But, the DB "vets" will tell you that you need to detach yourself emotionally from letting YOUR evenings, your mood, your day, etc. depend on what direction she takes that roller coaster. You need to work on "acting as if" you are fine, you are strong, you are in control, no matter what she throws at you.

What I learned to do is "act as if" when around H and go into the bathroom when I needed to express some emotion, or couldn't quite keep it together. I would pull myself together, get back out there and "act as if" some more....

You need to remember that you are a strong, confident man that she (or any other woman) would be blessed to have for a husband. You need to project that... not in an arrogant way, but with quiet confidence. You need to remember that you will be that man regardless of the outcome of this, and regardless of whatever she chooses. No matter what, you will be ok, and you will be a great dad. No matter what. So, don't let her moods dictate your well-being.

Ride that roller coaster with that confidence in mind.

[gutwrenching]

Sandi,
What would I do without you. I missed that one, didn't see it, but yes pathetic now that you state the obvious. I had wrongly convinced myself it was all about being worried about her, when it was probably more about me being addicted to the positive vibes. Got another chance now and I won't blow it. Like usual these days, I'm home, she's at work. I WILL NOT bother to ask her when she's coming home and I will work on pulling back and detaching this evening. I can start this evening and carry thru.
Thanks again.
Keep on blasting me
No more pathetic!

[gutwrenching]

Rocked - you nailed it for me...it is consistent detaching on the roller coaster that is my weakness. I do good for a while and then poor for a while. Thanks for jumping into my thread with your recent experiences, it is helpful. I like the bathroom technique, that could work well for me too.

[gutwrenching]

OK - did better already! Thanks for the kick in the tail. No TM, no calls either way all evening. After kids in bed, she calls. She asks what are you doing, I give a one word response: eating. She asks where are the girls, I give a two word response, in bed. This upsets her a little. She asks how they are doing, I give a short response, just fine, no issues. Immediate dejection in voice, she starts apologizing and starts talking and explaining things. I pretty much just listened. Only asked one question so I knew....asked if she's going to want a salad or just heat up what I made. Didn't even tell her what it was.
Like I said, amazing how the tone of her voice changed when it became obvious that I didn't need her and everything was fine and handled.
Will see what happens when she gets home, whenever that might be. I didn't ask.

[sandi2]

That was better, GW. As long as you did not sound as if you were pouting when you gave your one-two word answers. Hard to tell at times when reading somebody's written responses. Some men have a problem with detaching and applying short sentences when their S asks questions, etc., but if you can do that without sounding like, "I'm sulking b/c you were mean to me", then that is fantastic.

You are too close to see the things that pop out to us, so if you can hang in here and accept what we tell you, then you are tough and determined to do what needs to be done. That says a lot about what kind of man you are.

Even in a matter of a few hours, do you see the principle of how that worked when you pulled back....and she drew in closer?

[gutwrenching]

I might need to work on not sounding as I am pouting. I don't know. I know to try to sound normal/even upbeat, but I'm not sure. Either I did sound like pouting or the one/two word responses are so abnormal that it puts the W on alert. She came home and I continued the friendly but short responses. I did a lot of listenting and little talking. Three times she asked me what is wrong. After the third, I put on a big smile, said stop worrying, everything is absolutely great.
She even made a comment that she was a little worried about me because she had heard so little from me all day. She also asked what it was that I had stopped by to talk to her about. I told her it wasn't significant, I don't even remember any more.

Then more comes out. She asks me if I feel I'm just a daycare service for her. That one caught me off guard. I said absolutely not, I love spending all this time with the kids. She then said you said that once before about being her daycare service. That shocked me even more since I don't remember saying or implying that. So I said: I can't imagine saying that or even thinking that, I'm not sure when I would have said something that would have given you that impression but it isn't true. The kids are doing fine, we have settled into a nice routine, they miss you, but we are doing great together (which she absolutely knows/sees and for a while was a huge source of jealousy for her as we have really been bonding).

Shortly after, we went up to bed. I went into the room and she went to check on the kids, or so i thought. A couple minutes later I here her crying and she's just standing in the hall crying so I gave in and went out to see what was wrong and I held her. It is guilt or sadness or whatever about not having seen the kids at all that day, the day prior, and she said she knows she won't the next day either. To me this is an interesting reaction...she was going stretches like this when in the throws of the EA and was staying at work real late cause she was wasting so much time talking/texting/chatting with OM. Didn't seem to bother her then.

We went to bed and this time, she doesn't come over to me, she rolls on her side and asks if I would give her a back massage because she has been so stressed and needs to sleep. I obliged, she fell asleep.

This morning, as the alarms are going off, she reached over and put her hand on my shoulder for a little while (again extrememly rare these days) and after she pulled her hand back, I did the same thing to which she grabbed my hand and interlocked her fingers in mine. When time to leave, she very obviously walked up to me and initiated a hug.

Now what does all this tell me. I got to be honest, I can't be 100% sure. She was not dealing with the suicide well yesterday and was worried about today and having to meet with the wife of the deceased again to go see the body. Factor that in with the fact she told me she forgot to take one of her medications yesterday and there are a ton of variables. The other always uknown is was there contact: phone or e-mail with OM. Phone highly unlikely. E-mail always a possibility.

I am way to close to things and I can take the feedback, I have thick skin, I know I screwed up in the past, took me hitting rock bottom to see it, but it is what it is at this point.

I did see in a matter of hours of drawing back and her pulling in closer. I see it, but getting it engrained in my brain is tough. It seems counter-intuitive...the reason she made up her mind to leave is because I was too withdrawn...so now I am trying to foucus on pulling back to keep her. WOW.

[sandi2]

It seems counter-intuitive...the reason she made up her mind to leave is because I was too withdrawn...so now I am trying to foucus on pulling back to keep her. WOW.

Exactly! And....you handled yourself very well.

I know it is crazy b/c you seem to have to do the very thing she use to complain about, but that is where so many men have problems trusting the DR technique (detaching) b/c they fear the W will leave.

For you own sake, try your best not to read into things. Her mood swings will continue and she could be "playing" you to cover up her EA (if she is continuing in it). But, IDK right now....just don't get overly excited by these "positive" switches you might see from time to time. You can think of it as a tiny baby step, but don't make more out of it than it is.

If she was crying over not seeing the kids.....that is a good sign b/c if she was deep in the WAW fog, it would not affect her as much (IMO). So, I agree with you about that.

Good job.