WAW and 4 kids

[tryingtilDorR]

I am trying to keep a steady hand for sure right now.

I really don't think W knows what she wants right now (what else is new?) but I know she is really angry about me contacting quasi-GF all of the sudden again after calm over the holidays. She is using it to get herself as angry at me as possible right now for some reason.

She had some gems this morning - I wanted to record these because they might be interesting to review later on (Quotes from a wacky-WAW):

I found a place I want to rent and if you won't give me money to rent it I will use a credit card.

I have had inappropriate friendships with 2 men so I guess you married a floozy

Sheis referring to OM and her trainer before that, to which she admitted the difference was she had feelings for OM but not trainer. A lot of our M problems prior to EA were due to my reactions to her being controlled by the trainer, who expected her to put training before all family activities, etc and she complied.

We don't have a savings account otherwise I would be using that to rent something like my SIL did

Our savings has been drained when I lost my job and took a lower-paying one. I also took on a lot of debt to improve our home with plan of paying it off from windfalls from the job that was lost so it didn't work out so well. However, it is probably a good thing and kinda ironic since it disabled some of her plans and also reduced the equity in the house. I keep thinking God was at work here and that there was a silver lining to the economic trouble over the past year.

We don't know what will happen in the future.

This was in response to a question I asked her about the rental she found. I asked what type of lease agreement they expected and she said she is looking for a month-to-month but that they wanted at least six months. She wants a month-to-month because she doesn't know what she wants and wants to try this out. I told her once she moves out I am done and we need to D - I won't hang around while she plays single person.

She referred to the stuff she talked to OM about back when EA was most intense as 'garbage' specifically in reference to the things she told him about me and our M.

Last night I got a wild hair and decided to do something crazy that I haven't done in a long time - I walked up behind her and hugged her from behind in front our S11 and S12. She knew I was doing it to bug her (something I would do before especially when she was busy doing something ) and she asked me to stop, but the unexpected thing I saw was S11's face light up with a HUGE smile when he saw me do that and he said "Mom don't be so mean". I didn't mean for that to happen and I know it made her mad but it was great to see the big smile on his face. It makes me realize what is missing from our home and family even more. It is doubtful that we will be able to create that again for these kids - bummer.

<I know it sounds like major pursuing but I didn't care - I was teasing her more than anything - I don't have anything to lose anymore>

[tryingtilDorR]

One other thing.

I had told my IC that I was going to visit the church we were married in on our 20th wedding anniversary. She suggested that I light an offering candle and to buy an extra one to bring home. I did.

Now I have this ritual. I burn the candle at home in an area that is kind of like a shrine for our M. Her wedding boquet is in a glass enclosure on a counter in our bedroom and 2 pictures from our wedding are hung above it. One of both of us standing in front of the church and one of her face. It is an area that I walked by between our bedroom and bathroom for years and didn't pay much attention, but it has taken on new significance for me.

This is where I light the offering candle. I usually do it when she is not home and say a prayer about our M and family.

Since that initial visit, I have been back to the church twice. The first 2 visits were unexpectedly emotional for me, but the last visit wasn't - I was at peace. However, the thing I do is bring the candle I had burned at home at the 'shrine' and put it into the offering candle holder in the church, and then buy another candle to bring home.

By buringing the candle at home first and then bringing it to the church it is like bringing my problems to God. It feels like that anyway. I am enjoying this exercise and will be back at the church later this week hopefully. It is just a little thing but it has helped me get through tough times. The church is a beautiful place and a historical landmark so it is a cool place to visit regardless of the reason.

[pigskin]

One other thing.

I had told my IC that I was going to visit the church we were married in on our 20th wedding anniversary. She suggested that I light an offering candle and to buy an extra one to bring home. I did.

Now I have this ritual. I burn the candle at home in an area that is kind of like a shrine for our M. Her wedding boquet is in a glass enclosure on a counter in our bedroom and 2 pictures from our wedding are hung above it. One of both of us standing in front of the church and one of her face. It is an area that I walked by between our bedroom and bathroom for years and didn't pay much attention, but it has taken on new significance for me.

This is where I light the offering candle. I usually do it when she is not home and say a prayer about our M and family.

Since that initial visit, I have been back to the church twice. The first 2 visits were unexpectedly emotional for me, but the last visit wasn't - I was at peace. However, the thing I do is bring the candle I had burned at home at the 'shrine' and put it into the offering candle holder in the church, and then buy another candle to bring home.

By buringing the candle at home first and then bringing it to the church it is like bringing my problems to God. It feels like that anyway. I am enjoying this exercise and will be back at the church later this week hopefully. It is just a little thing but it has helped me get through tough times. The church is a beautiful place and a historical landmark so it is a cool place to visit regardless of the reason.

That's beautiful! I may steal that ritual...

[tryingtilDorR]

Last night when I was watching TV in my bed W was laying on floor by the fire and we were having smalltalk conversation, and she suddently goes ape-s*** about me contacting OM's quasi-GF (again). This is really bugging her. She had been texting either OM or some enabler-friends just before.

The bad thing is that she said some things, and I responded, and our kids could hear. We weren't yelling, but just talking angrily. I should have just ignored her and left the room but I didn't (when am I ever going to learn?).

The conversation was about how her R with OM has nothing to do with how our M is turning out and that she wanted to be D a long time ago and that I just can't accept it and keep doing crazy stuff, like talking to GF and 'smearing' W's name. I told her my intent was to call out OM's actions primarily, not hers. She then says she can do what she wants and I can't tell her who to be 'friends' with to which I respond I don't accept that - it was an inappropriate friendship and you know it. My IC told me that it is hard for me to 'get over' something that is NOT OVER (that is, her R with OM whom she continues to have contact with)!

Since kids heard this (S18 came to the room and said they could hear us and to quiet down) she says these parting words: "If you ever badmouth me to my kids get ready for a major battle - I will take you to the cleaners blah blah blah - this is why we can't live together - it is not a good situation for the kids..."

What is ironic is that she started this discussion and they clearly heard her say that she doesn't want to be married and hasn't wanted to be married to me for years and therefore she can do whatever she wants. I think she badmouthed herself. I am sad they heard this - I had the power to stop the whole thing by just biting my toungue and letting her flame out. When it comes to her crazing opinions about acceptableness-of-EA-and-OM I just can't help it.

Oh well - she is really P.O.'d I knew there would be fallout from contacting quasi-GF. She paused over the holidays for the most part but is back!

I need to focus on disengaging from her nuttiness - I prompted it with my actions I realize - but her actions (EA) are what started the whole thing. I have told her that while she may not agree on my reaction, the overal 'situation' is of her making.

She knows this and when I think she thinks about it clearly it really bugs her. Facing reality is a hard thing. When they do, get ready for fireworks.

There may be nothing left after the fire dies down to salvage, or new life could spring from the ashes. Right now I am thinking we are the former case, but who the heck knows!

[tryingtilDorR]

So many of us LBHs are in this common state. WAW hangs around in 'limbo' - possibly sleeping in another room but not actively participating in the M but just being co-parents under the same roof. Most have had or currently have an OM lurking somewhere that helps them to stay uncommitted to the M even though LBHs have 'woken up' and are completely willing to work on their half of the problems in the M. Also, most of the WAWs are in their 40s, suddenly very focused on their appearance, have a new job or career or have faced some sort of life crisis like a death.

We try to be nice - be the H that WAW always would have wanted but get nothing in return and in many case it gets worse. WAW rebels and starts talking about how it is 'too late' and that the M was bad for a 'long time' (certainly was 'done' BEFORE any OM showed up). We practice DB techniques and observe their behavior and get some results but nothing earth shattering but we learn throughout the process (hopefully).

We exist in this state for a long time. Finally we start to get fed up and realize that we are only left with 2 choices:

1) continue on same path and maybe by some miracle WAW will 'wake up'
2) take actions to end the M ourselves since WAW doesn't seem inclined to do so, or is scared, or something else

What to do? (1) is the definition of insanity - hoping that doing the same thing will produce different results, right? If you jump to (2) you might have a twinge or regret.

Now, I realize that there are a lot of degrees of freedom within (1) - have you tried different ways to DB and ALL possible techniques relevant to your situation? It is hard to say since every situation is a little different in the details.

Seeing what happened with GIMA had me thinking about all this since he, myself, thinker, tridoc, and various others on these boards are kind of in the same boat.

[pigskin]

What happened with GIMA?

[tryingtilDorR]

His wife filed for D after a long stretch of limbo. There are a bunch of us in this limbo state, wanting for it to end one way or another. If W files they do the work for us, just like if they move out of the house on their own, etc.

Got a knife in the heart from W this morning. Just after I described my ritual with the offering candles in my post I actually paid a visit to the church yesterday.

W noticed that the candle was gone and asked me this morning where it was yesterday.

I didn't see any reason to not directly answer her question, so I told her what I had been doing with the candles and how I had visited the church where we were married on a couple of occasions.

She sarcastically told me "you can burn all the candles you want but it isn't going to help you - it is like some sort of shrine over here and I should take all this crap down (our wedding pictures, etc)"

Ouch.

Oh well - I told her that it was my way of dealing with things, just like seeing my IC.

[pigskin]

His wife filed for D after a long stretch of limbo. There are a bunch of us in this limbo state, wanting for it to end one way or another. If W files they do the work for us, just like if they move out of the house on their own, etc.

Got a knife in the heart from W this morning. Just after I described my ritual with the offering candles in my post I actually paid a visit to the church yesterday.

W noticed that the candle was gone and asked me this morning where it was yesterday.

I didn't see any reason to not directly answer her question, so I told her what I had been doing with the candles and how I had visited the church where we were married on a couple of occasions.

She sarcastically told me "you can burn all the candles you want but it isn't going to help you - it is like some sort of shrine over here and I should take all this crap down (our wedding pictures, etc)"

Ouch.

Oh well - I told her that it was my way of dealing with things, just like seeing my IC.

Just my opinion, but you should have kept that ritual to yourself. After all, its not for her, its between you and God. And it probably made you seem desperate in her eyes.

I'm sure you thought she might be touched by hearing about it, but I don't think wives in this state are affected by anything sentimental. I learned that pretty quick.

[tryingtilDorR]

I agree. I wish I hadn't told her, but at the same time I wasn't hoping she would be touched either - I knew she wouldn't. I just got caught flat-footed when she asked and wasn't sure what to say, and I decided I didn't want to lie or hide the truth I guess. I was probably a little mentally exhausted after all that has gone on and she caught me off guard when I was still in bed first thing in the morning.

We are definitely at a different kind of low point right now. She is very angry this week. There is NOTHING to be gained by engaging with her on any level really right now.

[tryingtilDorR]

Rough couple of days, but partly my fault for not detatching. She quit wearing her wedding ring Friday. It irritated me. I told her I was going to keep wearing mine because it wan't important for me to advertise that I was single and I didn't want to have to explain to the kids.

This kept bugging me and we ended up having another argument. She then said she is going to get the mediator scheduled and that she wants us to alternately move out, etc etc (heard it all before). We were getting into our normal argument/pattern.

this time I came away with a new perspective. I started thinking about the fact that I am starting a new job in 10 days and it will require a lot of my focus and if we are going through a separation it will make things difficult especially because I will be traveling. I also thought about the kids and how it would be harder on them if we are doing this during school year.

She has basically been having her own 'open relationship' I realized. I realized that all of our arguments that make her want to leave are over the fact that I wouldn't accept this and we bicker about what she is doing with OM.

What if I don't care anymore? I realized maybe I don't. I then told her that it would be nice if we could delay separating a few months for the reasons stated above, and what if I treated her just like a roomate and we didn't meddle in each other's personal lives. We could have an 'open relationship' and it would eliminate th tension since I just won't care what she does.

the fact that I have cared and was offended by her relationship with OM fueled many arguments and created stress.

I think she was taken back by this. she said something like I was crazy to suggest an open relationship I said why not - you are basically doing it already and I wouldn't accept it which is what causes most of our arguments. If I don't care anymore and we are both free to have relations with others there is no reason to argue. We can be co-parents and roomates for a few more months and there should be much less tension. We won't meddle in each others' pesonal life.

Her answer currently remains, NO, we can move out and kids will be fine and I will stay with them when you travel for your job. It is interesting that I am offering her a stress-free existence in our home as a bargaining chip and she insists on getting out into her own place. In fact I am telling her that she would be doing what she would normally do when she leaves and I won't care or ask any questions (and she will do the same for me) just like as if we lived apart.

I will continue to experiment with this and see where it goes. It seems like stress level reduced immediately with her this evening as soon as I said this. I mean this - I am feeling like I really don't care about what she does anymore but I need her to stay in the house a little longer so I can get going with my job and delay stressing out our children until the end of school.