I think it was good. MC talked about hostility vs. friendliness in communication and I saw H really listening. MC steered us away from blame and defensiveness and toward really listening and validating. We shall see, but this month there have been a lot of positive changes with MC so I'm hopeful.
I'm glad it went well! You were probably expecting the worst and for him to bite your head off while denying there was a problem. Hopefully the MC's words will bounce around in his head and stick somewhere!
Me38,H:38,S:7 Married:6/99 Bomb:7/04 Sep.:5/05 D Filed:3/08;Final 1/10 Piecing:11/09 H moved back:09/10 Current thread: http://tiny.cc/htcty
I forgot to add that you should try not to think there is an OW. You probably know in your gut whether there is or not. I know it seems like there almost always is one (or an OM), it isn't a 100% thing. Years ago I told people here that my philosophy was to not borrow trouble. Your mind can go to all these dark and scary places about what if he's doing this or that. If it is, you'll eventually find out. Wondering about it today and making yourself upset over a "what if" won't make it hurt any less if you find out there was someone else. So for now, take what you know at face value. You'll really drive yourself insane otherwise.
My H didn't have an OW. He did date while we were separated, but not until about 2 years into it. One lasted at least a year or more and in that time, there wasn't any hint of him ever working things out with me. Your H is joining you in some family things and is in MC and seems to be willing to be there and listening. Those are good things.
Me38,H:38,S:7 Married:6/99 Bomb:7/04 Sep.:5/05 D Filed:3/08;Final 1/10 Piecing:11/09 H moved back:09/10 Current thread: http://tiny.cc/htcty
Yeah, Freckles, I was expecting him to bite my head off completely and he only did so partially so I'm lucky. Like I said, there moments I saw and felt him really listening to the MC in between his usual ranting script.
Strange thing is, our experiences of our arguments are so different it's scary. As a matter of fact, he said I "bludgeon him with demands" when I feel that he does exactly that to me! He shouts orders and demands and complaints and criticisms daily. When I respond, I feel I am asking to be spoken to with more respect. He feels I am demanding something of him and "denying his reality".
I swear that was really crazy. = I'm still stumped by that one.
However, the MC illuminated our pattern - H says something that hurts me, I feel hurt, I ask him to speak nicer, H feels he is being demanded of and shuts me down, I push, he shuts down, I push, etc & round and round. This is a nice way of putting it.
So we both admitted our part - and that was the first time I've heard that from H in a long time. It was a good step. MC had to remind H that I am not denying H's reality by expressing what my experience is, and encouraged me to remember this too (kinda hard when H boasts - "I remember the facts and you are in crazyland").
so, the abuse was not dealt with directly, but indirectly. I am hoping it works. My panic attacks were lessoned today as I hoped to come home to a calmer H as a result. (I was secretly hoping MC would slam H and confront him about all the hurtful things he says to me, but in not taking sides, he'll probably make more headway.) Also, his advice for me not to push for my needs meets with DB principals of no pressuer, taking care of self, backing off, etc.
And as for OW, you are right. I like your idea of not creating trouble where there is none! Great advice. Keep it simple. I'm beginning to think that if in his weird mind he experiences me as "demanding" of my needs, and "denying his reality" perhaps he doesn't discuss his nights off out of a fear of confrontation. It's like MWD says if you expect disaster, you may create it, if you act "as if" things are good, you'll get that reaction from spouse. If I accuse and suspect OW where there is none, I'm creating unnecessary tension between us and H will react to that energy alone.
"One thing I've noticed is that he doesn't bring up a lot of things that were his "reasons" for leaving in the first place. Some things have come up and we've talked about them pretty rationally and he doesn't have that intense "you did this" and "you never did this" thing going on when they start spewing in the beginning to justify what they're doing."
It reminds me that H is still in the normal blame phase. IF he hears anything the MC says at this point, that is really really good. H blamed me today by claiming I was the one that "started bad patterns early on in our relationship" and that he "stooped to my level" and THAT is what caused all our problems.
Ok, sure. 8 years of his own choices and actions but it's all my fault for some argument that occurred at the beginning of time. Thank you for reminding me of this phase of justifying their departure - there is really no other explaination for such a bizarre rationalization!!!!
This morning went so-so. Although the phase where every moment with H it seems he is angry with me has passed, it has devolved into jabbing "jokes." I'm trying sooooo hard not to take the bait. But it's difficult to stay PMA and calm when someone is passive aggressively belittling you - I suppose he is still trying to express his anger with me, albeit in a less hostile tone. At least it's less tense.
Last night, H starts "joking" about how I should clean up the coffee table, and search for something for him "because I don't have anything else to do." I think this expresses his resentment that I'm taking S to the snow for a couple nights - he backed out of joining us, so this doesn't seem fair. Perhaps he's just mad at me in general and at least his attacks are softening.
This morning, first thing, he complains about how the bedroom stinks of various cat smells (I know this is a big trigger for him from his childhood). I am so glad he is not yelling about this like he did a few months ago when a similar topic arose, but I felt attacked. Instead, tried to not take it personally, apologized, and said I would clean the bedroom again.
Here's the kicker - even after I listened and validated, he kept going on and on and on about it. That's hard enough, but it is EXACTLY WHAT HE EXPRESSED DISLIKE IN ME about yesterday during MC!!!! He said I bludgeon him with demands and go on and on and it's never good enough. I felt EXACTLY THE SAME WAY this morning when he starts going on and on and on about the horrifying cat smell and maybe something is dead in there, and maybe we're all going to get diseases, and I was barely awake I felt BLUDGEONED!
I got irritated when he moved on to "asking" if I made S's lunch last night as I said I would, pointing out I left a glass on the coffee table when he had asked me to clear it last night...on and on... and then when I got irritated, saying, "ok, stop implying that I'm lazy! I've had enough!" he "jokingly" calls me hysterical.
So I apologize but geez when is he going to come around and see his part in this? Still in denial - or fog?
It continued from there - I was distracting S from getting ready for school, did I get this done, did I get that done....but again, this is a step up from his bitterness and conviction that I "can't do anything and he has to do everything", the constant anger, etc.
I wonder if this is "abusive" or if it's the normal WAS spewing of "LBS can do nothing right" to justify their leaving.
But I am noting that he has toned down his anger, and that I too am working on staying as calm as possible.
He even thanked me for getting S dressed. I got a thank you!
MC says that as long as I continue to stay calm, don't counter-attack, listen, H will notice the changes in me and our R. Perhaps he is beginning to sense it?
PS forgot to mention, H continues to watch tv with me before bed - our usual ritual prebomb, and considering he couldn't stand to be in the same house with me at night two months ago, this is positive!
MC says that as long as I continue to stay calm, don't counter-attack, listen, H will notice the changes in me and our R. Perhaps he is beginning to sense it?
This is a test of the LBS system.. if this had been an typical (few months ago) scenario you would have seen his tail end heading out the door because you wouldv'e lost your cool, not listened & validated.
Reminder .. this was only a test. WAW also believe only 1/2 of what the LBS spouse does when they promise to change.
Peace Bridge
Divorced 03/2010 Mom to two amazing kids
Taking the road less traveled because those encountered on the way may be just as unique.
Bridge! Yep, staying calm, listening, and validating is sooo hard when I feel I'm being treated so unfairly. But I did my part, and yes, he didn't do the tailspin. I got a thank you. Keep working on me, that's the goal.
