I am currently stuck deep in limbo - a limbo of my own choosing. It's frustrating at times, and can't last forever (I can't let it), but for now it is giving me some time to think.
A summary of my sitch: - The A is over (I believe), but my w has never expressed regret, accepted responsibility or truly apologized. Like in many other sitch's, she continues to place all blame for our sitch on me.
- She does NOT want a D at this time, or a separation. She does not want the disruption to her life or the loss of support or the impact on the kids.
- She will not commit to the M, or to working on the M. She and I are both separately seeing ICs', but MC has been a complete failure. Each time we have attempted it she has started the first session with "I don't know what I want" and "I don't feel anything" and then proceeded to blame me for everything. The sessions go nowhere.
- We are still sleeping in the same bed and are occasionally physically affectionate - hugs, etc. Most of the time I initiate the affection. I do this because I have made a decision that as long as she is my w, and not my stbxw, then I am going to be an affectionate husband.
- There is little to no intimacy of any sort - physical or emotional - in our R. She rejects any and all attempts at kissing, hand holding, ML, heart to heart discussions etc.
Life is definitely not miserable. We have a good life. We both love our kids. We cooperate well together. I am MUCH better now at expressing myself, at setting boundaries, and at bringing up things which bother me in a productive way.
To Quote the Shawshank Redemption, however: "Time to Get Busy Living, or Get Busy Dying"
I am ready to move on with my life. Either we are going to rebuild a new R, or we are going to dismantle the M and move on. I am pausing for 2 reasons. The first, as you all know, is out of compassion for her and her mothers situation. The second is for myself. I don't want a D, and I don't want to force D on my kids. I know that I am susceptible to requests from her not to D. I know that if I proceed with a D, she will place the responsibility for ending the M on me, will claim to be trying, will try to appease me, etc. I know that unless I have clear concrete terms under which I am willing to stay - and which in the absence of which I will leave - I will be very difficult for me not to cave in and end up back in Limbo.
Before I proceed, therefore, I need to decide for myself EXACTLY what it is that I am willing to accept in the M, both short term and long term.
I'm still working on this.
Here are a set of points that are my minimum. I don't have a timeframe yet - still TBD. I am also struggling with how to put them into concrete terms.
In order for me to agree to remain married and not proceed with D, Mrs. T must:
- Want to be married to me and openly state this. - Verbally commit to the marriage. (ie: say (in front of a C?) "I want to be married to you and I want to try to make this work")
- Accept responsibility for the A and promise that it will not happen again as long as we are married.
- Tell me what she needs to be happy and how she wants to be loved. Be open to accepting love from me.
- Listen when I tell her what I need and how I want to be loved. Be willing to try to love me in the way that I request. ---
These aren't the minimum for a M, just the minimum to continue postponing a D.
I'm open to suggestions.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Glad to hear from you and that you are back from the "boys roadtrip."
Isn't this
Quote:
- Want to be married to me and openly state this. - Verbally commit to the marriage. (ie: say (in front of a C?) "I want to be married to you and I want to try to make this work")
pretty much THE impasse you and I (and others) share? I mean this IS the issue our W's don't seem to be able to get past. They don't want to lie to us that they CAN try and they don't want to make a decision.
Not beating you up, but do you really think your W can say these things right now? And, more importantly, CAN you stay if she doesn't?
Glad to hear from you and that you are back from the "boys roadtrip."
Isn't this
Quote:
- Want to be married to me and openly state this. - Verbally commit to the marriage. (ie: say (in front of a C?) "I want to be married to you and I want to try to make this work")
pretty much THE impasse you and I (and others) share? I mean this IS the issue our W's don't seem to be able to get past. They don't want to lie to us that they CAN try and they don't want to make a decision.
Not beating you up, but do you really think your W can say these things right now? And, more importantly, CAN you stay if she doesn't?
Yes, it is the heart of the impasse.
I am also struggling with two ways to proceed. The first would be direct and 2 the point - "Unless you can agree to these points, then I will proceed with D. You have X amount of time to decide".
The issue I am having with the first is that it seems to be placing a demand on her to feel a certain way - ie "Love me or else" - not terribly productive. On the other hand it does allow me set a clear boundary with consequences (If you won't commit, then I won't stay married to you). It makes it difficult for her to play the role of victim.
The other would be to initiate D and watch her behavior. If she meets the requirements, then I stop. If not, then I continue with the D. This will likely lead to her playing the role of wounded victim ("see, you've always been a selfish unloving jerk")
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
They don't want to lie to us that they CAN try and they don't want to make a decision.
You are right about this.
My w has exclaimed to me several times "I AM trying".
If I point out to her that she is not DOING anything, and that when we were in MC she refused to discuss any issue in detail, and did not do any of the exercises the MC's gave us, and refused to participate in the retrouvaille "Dialoging", and has not read a single R book or made any active steps to improve our R, then she responds "But you just don't understand how HARD this is for me"
It does seem to me that she (knowingly or unknowingly) intends to "Try" long enough and ineffectively enough that eventually I give up and file, enabling her to leave the m free of guilt and able to blame me for ending it.
Last edited by Thinker; 01/05/1005:22 PM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Thinker, How long has she been in IC? Have your tried a different MC?
She was in IC for 6 months or so and got nowhere. He was a pretty ineffective IC but essentially it was because she didn't want to make any changes and didn't really try.
She is now with a different IC who is a lot better, but that has only been 5 or 6 times. As part of this, he met with me as her spouse and (indirectly) indicated to me that she wasn't getting past blaming everything on me.
We met with 2 MC's and attended Retro. She left the first MC immediately because he was aggressively looking for commitment from her. She stuck with the 2nd for a while because he just listened as she shrugged her shoulders and refused to open up. It didn't go anywhere. She agreed to go to Retro, but sabotaged all of the exercises (used them as opportunities to bash me and the M rather than talking about the emotions she was supposed to talk about) and then refused to go to the follow up sessions.
I suggested a new MC last fall, but in the end she declined to go.
Last edited by Thinker; 01/05/1005:33 PM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Call a DB counselor. Seriously. First by yourself, then, depending on the discussion with the DB counselor, together.
Dia,
God knows, I respect your opinion, and you've certainly been more successful than me at DB'ing, but the problem I see is the greatest C in the world can't help someone who doesn't want help. And unless and until that issue changes, I don't see how C'ing is going to help.
And just like Thinker, I am fast with this same problem. But, in the end, it's HER problem that I cannot fix for her.
Hi GIMA - cross post good wishes. I'm sorry for what happened in your sitch today.
Thanks Dia. I'll consider the DB counselor. Is there one in particular that anyone would recommend in my sitch?
As far as MC in general, I agree with GIMA. For a long time my goal was to get her to agree to MC. I saw it as a solution to the problem. After a while I realized that I actually saw it as a way to control her via proxy. I was hoping that the right program or the right C would confront her in the right way and get her to turn around - convince her in a way that I had been unable to.
Finally, after a long time of trying (after the failed retro weekend) I realized that this was faulty thinking. Trying to control her in any way, is futile, wrong and codependent. MC won't convince her to change, only help her if she decides to do so herself. This left me with the healthy realization that I have to accept that she is exactly the way she is. I have no influence over whether she changes, nor do the C's.
This is freeing for me, but unfortunately it also leaves me with the realization that I don't want to be married to the person she is. I only wanted to be married to the person I hoped she would become (again).
If she were this way when we were dating, I never would have asked me to marry her. (also, if while we were dating I had been the person I was during marriage, she never would have said "yes").
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
