Sandi's Place

[gutwrenching]

Sandi - you've been a great help on my thread. I suddenly can't find your do's and don'ts...I need to continue to reference them, helps me stay on track. Can you repost or provide a link
thanks

[ClingingToHope]

Sandi, don't close up shop here yet. I was reading your post to one of the newcomers who is considering moving out to make things easy on the family. That, of course, is what I did.

I was very concerned about what you wrote. That by moving out the courts may see this as abandonment. I have not spoken to an attorney since October. I'm 2/3 of the way to having saved the retainer.

My lease is up at the end of January and I had ruled out moving home because of the damage it could do to the girls and the fact that it would likely do more harm than good in our R.

If we D, I will want joint physical custody. Should I contact the attorney and talk over my living arrangements and how that may affect my efforts?

[sandi2]

I'm soooo confused!

At first, I supported the idea of you moving back into your house when you kept talking about the financial strain and you didn't know if you should renew the lease on your apartment. But when I told you what to expect from your W if you did that....then you said that you "could" make it financially, but it was just hard. So, then I suggested that since "you" were the one to decide to move out and "you" were the one who volunteered so much money to your W who already made more than you did.....I felt (as a former WAW) that she would see your move back into the home as being very weak. I still think she would! If you moved back in b/c you could not meet the financial obligations that "you" offered when you left. I know that it would be a huge turn-off if it were my H. It would result in losing more respect instead of gaining it, b/c of the circumstances surrounding it. That is JMHO.

But if I remember correctly, that was the question and how you related it to me. Then you were talking about how it would confused the girls,etc. You kept bouncing it around until the whole thing got confusing for me.

Since that post, you have continued to talk about it and getting different POV from others....and adding that Sandi's advice was to "not" move back.

I sent a post earlier trying to respond to your last request here on my thread, but wasn't sure what it was you wanted my opinion on. Anyway, I don't think I make myself understood very well and maybe you just need to talk to a lawyer about your options and what would be best for your kids.

I do want to say this.....you started out talking about one thing, then it changed, then it changed again. You need to make sure you are either talking about moving back home to 1) save the M; 2)for financial reasons; or 3)for the sake of the kids.

Do you see why this became very frustrating and confusing? So, I'm not upset or anything, but I don't want you to mistake my advice, either.

[givingitmyall]

Sandi - you've been a great help on my thread. I suddenly can't find your do's and don'ts...I need to continue to reference them, helps me stay on track. Can you repost or provide a link
thanks

Let me help sandi out here. I copied that list early on. Here you go:


WAW Do’s/Don’t’s
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore!
2. No frequent phone calls to him/her.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to him/her through
conversation.....say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, etc.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention. (Remember, you are drawing him/her back with this technique.)
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.)
8. Do not buy gifts. (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together. (That is pursuing.)
10.Do not spy on spouse. (Not good for you and will make
matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make him/her say it too......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act as if you are moving on with your life!
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times!
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do
things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the
conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be scarce or
short on words. If he/she asks what's wrong....just
say "nothing". Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an
argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home!
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!)
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse
happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around, somebody that is attractive and fun.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let him/her trap you into a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how he/she feels (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.)
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give him/her space and time.
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil)
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.
30.Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting
more than ever and are desperate and needy
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what
you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.


I also like this story:

PICNIC ANALOGY:
Imagine that the WAS is inside an impenetrable castle. WAS is deep inside the castle walls and has no desire to see the outside world. WAS has his/her own world right there inside those cold, stone walls.

Then there's you. You're sitting on the other side of the moat (drawbridge is up, btw). You've got a nice blanket laid out on the cool, green grass, and you're enjoying yourself by having a wonderful picnic all alone. You're absolutely content with this, and aren't even concerned with the castle and the WAS within (in fact, you've got your back to it).

Eventually, WAS gets a little curious about the what's going on outside the castle, and decides to take a peak over the walls. WAS sees you, just sitting there enjoying yourself. He/She is surprised, because previously you had been throwing rocks at the castle, singing and dancing in hopes of getting their attention. WAS is wondering what you're up to, and why you're so content. After a while, WAS decides to lower the drawbridge and join you at your picnic. WAS sits down, and you just act as if -- you're happy, confident, etc. Suddenly, WAS realized where he/she is and what he/she is doing, and it scares the hell out him/her. WAS jumps up and dashes back to the castle for no apparent reason. You however, didn't even budge or flinch. WAS peeks back out to see what you're doing, and notices that you're still sitting in the same place, enjoying yourself without concern. Again, WAS is surprised, and eventually comes out again. This time WAS stays a little longer, but again gets spooked and runs back. However, you're still not deterred from enjoying your picnic. The WAS's visits begin to happen more and more, and they last longer and longer. Once he/she realizes that there is no risk for him/her (i.e. that you won't bring up the R, pursue her, get angry, become needy, etc), WAS begins to reflect on things, and begins questioning his/her choice to go to the castle. In time, WAS decides to bring up the R, and this is when you can discuss it with him/her because WAS is ready and has initiated the talk.

THIS is why it is important to avoid pursuing, because it gives the WAS the opportunity to miss you, reflect, see your changes and strength, etc. So, the next time me or anyone else tells you to just enjoy your picnic, you'll know what it means. This is a term that we used a lot this summer, but it kind of went away. I think it describes the pursuit dynamic perfectly. Don't chase the WAS back into the castle and hold him/her captive by standing outside the walls and trying to get his/her attention. As long as this is the case, it is likely that they'd rather starve themselves in their castle than come out.

[ClingingToHope]

Yes. It is confusing. I had decided after hearing from you and Mishka that moving home would hurt more than help, but then several people jump in telling me I'm weak and pushing me to move back and look at DDog and look at this.

There seems to be a huge divide in advice given by women and men.

I have to remember these are all just opinions and a lot of them are way different than the DB rules.

Sometimes I spend too much time on the boards and forget there are no experts.

My lawyer is calling me on Monday to talk about whether having moved out will hurt my chances for joint physical custody. If not, then I'm staying put and staying the course.

I've invested a lot of time in building a life at this new place where the girls are comfortable and happy. My W actually said back in September she was jealous of me. It's laid out much nicer than our house, which is old, creaky and difficult to maintain.

[sandi2]

Thanks GIMA, I do believe the WAW needs something that will cause her to get her attention off herself and OM (if there is an A). Of course, if there's an A, it will be more difficult.....but I think she still has to begin to miss her H/M and be interested in what he's doing in his life that doesn't include her. It takes longer if she's in an A, IMO, but I think the same principle applies.

I also like Dia's example of describing how a WAW's feels in the beginning. I wished I had bookmarked that post. I think it may have been on Orich's thread....but not sure. I remember her describing how the WAW feels like all the air has been sucked out of the room. Man, I do recall that feeling!

Thanks again.

[sandi2]

PUPPY.....OH PUUUUPPPPPPPPY. WHERE ARE YOU????

[Hope4us]

PUPPY.....OH PUUUUPPPPPPPPY. WHERE ARE YOU????

I was thinking the same thing Sandi. All most broke into a chorus of "where oh where has my little dog gone, or where or where can he be....?"

[sandi2]

I can go back farther. When I was a little girl, I remember my mother singing, "How Much is that Doggy in the Window".

I am hoping that it means that he and Mrs. Puppy are enjoying their new life together and he just hadn't had time to be around.

[Dia]

Hi, Sandi!

Let me see if I can find that post for you. It's early on in my own thread. I'll be back with a link.