Looking for some more help.

[bobby2087]

Hi everyone. I just wanted to post an update on my sitch, and maybe (hopefully) get some more advice/support. I will post a link to my original post below, but I can provide a quick recap here.

Wife and I got together in December of '04. We met at work. We got lived together at my parents house, an apartment she shared with two roommates, her sisters house, and two houses we rented ourselves. We got married on May 27, 2007 and bought our first house in November of 2008. My wife is currently 22 and I am 28. We have no kids together. We had our ups and downs, nothing ever very serious, we never even broke up once when we were dating or spent more than three days apart when she went on vacation with one of her friends. I have always had an issue with anger, I would get angry at my wife and yell at her, I guess you could call it verbal abuse. There was other things she did not like, such as the fact that I didn't like to go out with her and her friends enough, so she did go out alone a lot. Our sex life also suffered in the past year, I can't quite explain why but we drifted very far apart. In October she told me she was moving out because we needed time apart. She has been living with one of her friends since.

I can't really explain why I stopped being the loving husband I was toward my wife. Why we just because roommates instead of husband and wife. I love her more than anything and I would do anything in the world for her. She means so much to me, and I didn't even realize that things were so bad. I know it sounds stupid but I just didn't realize how important she was to me until she was gone. Then my whole world came apart. I think I have a lot of unhappiness in myself, and since I was unhappy I just didn't care. She was the only thing that really brought me happiness and I didn't even realize it. I want to change myself and am starting counseling on Jan 6. I just don't know what to do about my W. She says she needs time apart and that she isn't in love with me anymore and she doesn't think we can work on our marriage by her coming home and not being happy. I do understand this but I want to get the love back we had but I don't know how or if it is possible. She told me in the beginning of this she wanted a divorce but has not said anything about it since, we talk at least 6-7 times a day on the phone, we go out and do things (not much but still...) she spent Christmas Eve at my parents and I spent Christmas at her sisters with her...I'm just at a loss. It seems like she still cares but I want her to come home and work on it but she isn't willing. What do I do? Do I continue to just wait it out? Do I tell her there is a set period of time we either need to work on it or go our separate ways? I would give anything for this girl...she is the love of my life but I feel like she doesn't want me to love her anymore. All I remember are the good times we had (a LOT of them) and all she seems to remember are the bad.

[bobby2087]

Wanted to move this back to the front of this list....hoping to get something...anything?

[TrentC]

Welcome to the boards.

First question -- have you looking into either of Michele Weiner-Davis's books? I recommend The Divorce Remedy over Divorce Busting; DR is aimed at practical advice where DB is more clinical.

I grabbed this off of another post:

DO'S AND DON'TS FOR THE LEFT-BEHIND SPOUSE:

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse; let them be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation; instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation--then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise. (JMHO)
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

The important part of divorce busting right now is not to fix your marriage -- it's to stop the momentum towards divorce. Healing your marriage comes after she agrees to work on it with you.

[bobby2087]

Yeah I have both books. The thing is it seems like the longer we are apart and the longer this is taking the further apart we are growing. I don't think time is going to be my friend in this one.

[soleil]

Don't be a Negative Nelly. Start thinking positive. Psych your mind into thinking good thoughts. Whenever you think horribly about something, immediately replace it with a happy thought. Mine happens to be the beach...

That doesn't make all the problems go away but it sure is a heck of a lot better than being depressed.

Do not give her a time limit on "when things should be fixed by." I think this is a huge no-no. Tell her that you've decided to go to counseling to work on your anger issues. Tell her you are willing to try MC with her and are willing to fight for the M. Then see what she says.

You sound a lot like my H. As for the anger, has it always been an issue or just got worse now? What triggers it? Just from my experience, each time you said No to her when she'd invite you out, she experienced it as a sort of rejection. You can read up on my sitch so you can see her POV.

The fact that you recognize you have an anger/verbal abuse problem is step #1 so that is great news.

Also, her spending holidays with you is a plus side and I believe works in your favor.

[TrentC]

Yeah I have both books. The thing is it seems like the longer we are apart and the longer this is taking the further apart we are growing. I don't think time is going to be my friend in this one.

It's not the time, it's the pressure to make a decision.

This...

I know it sounds stupid but I just didn't realize how important she was to me until she was gone.

...is more common than you realize. Many people are unwilling to change until a crisis motivates us to.

If you back off for a couple of days -- don't initiate R talk, don't contact unless it's business-related (bills, etc.) -- then you can slow the progress towards divorce. Read DR and try to understand what it is advising.

The important thing about DB'ing is to take the opportunity to work on positive changes for yourself. The only control you have over the relationship is yourself and your actions; if you change those, you change the relationship.

DB'ing is not a quick process. You didn't get here in a day or a week, and it'll take more than a day or a week to turn things around.

If you can get her to agree to go to counseling, look into Retrouvaille (http://retrouvaille.org/); I'm planning to go to the next session in my area.

[bobby2087]

Thank you for the input. Soleil, I am very immature at times. My wife used to complain that we didn't do enough together. She would tell me things that I was doing that hurt her, and I would take offense at it and we would get into a fight. Looking back now I wish I would have just listened to my wife and tried to see things from her perspective. I didn't. She was telling me our marriage was bad (how she felt) and I felt she was wrong and told her that. How stupid of me!! To tell her that what she was feeling was wrong because I didn't feel it was that way. My wife would tell me if things didn't change then she was going to leave. She said this a lot. BUT toward the end she stopped saying that. She stopped telling me we needed to fix the marriage. So I just assumed everything was okay now in her world. She just got tired of telling me. She believes I never will change, she will come home and be unhappy, things will be the same. I don't want them to be. I want to change myself but I still bring up the relationship.

Take this for example. Last night she came to the house to do something on the internet for some classes she is going to take. So afterwards she starts crying a little because she misses our house (thats what she said). So of course I bring up the relationship, that she could come back, that we need to work on it, that by not working on things we are just letting everything go. Today she calls and we are back to square one, shes talking about divorce again. All because I can't quit pressuring her. I need to stop this NOW before I push her all the way away. I think today I am telling myself I will NOT bring up the relationship with her and I am going to try what you said Trent...just to talk to her only when necessary. I hope I can do this. I pray I can.

[bobby2087]

Trent-

I really do want to change myself. My biggest thing I need to change is I am so needy when it comes to her. She was always there for me, always my everything. If something happens, I have a bad day, whatever, I still want to call and talk to her. I need to stop being so dependent on her.

I have to start DB'ing the correct way, people on these boards have been telling me things since November I should have been doing, but my emotions always take charge and I screw it up. I am going to put this in God's hands and let what happens happen...I want to make my marriage work and be with my wife, whom I find the most beautiful woman in the world, forever. But I can't FORCE her to feel the same way. We used to be so in love. I need to become the man she loved before. Not sure it will work, but what I am doing sure isn't.

[TrentC]

I have to start DB'ing the correct way, people on these boards have been telling me things since November I should have been doing, but my emotions always take charge and I screw it up.

You can't force her to want to be with you, but you can attract her towards you.

Read the books. Follow the plan.

[bobby2087]

Thanks Trent. The one question I have though is when do you go to the extremes of LRT? Really not sure I want to go all the way to that yet, but maybe I should do parts of it? I don't want to ignore my wife if she calls, but maybe I should just not contact her or bring up any R talk unless she does?