Never thought I'd

[givingitmyall]

Actions speak louder than words. What actions make you believe these words are true? Don't get reeled in by words. They are just a test to see where you are at. To make sure that she still has control of you. Is that what you want?(her control of YOU).
How did things change so fast since yesterday? You said goals for week were no R talk. Did you forget your goals?

You read the detachment threads.
I think you know what you have to do.

Very wise advice. YOU control how and when this thing plays out from here. So, if you don't want to talk about something, you don't. "W, I hear you, but I'm just not ready to talk about that right now. I'll let you know when I'm ready. I have a lot to consider." And leave it alone. She can't MAKE you talk about something you don't want to. Take back control about this.

You need to expect more tests from her. More venom, anger. And that's actually a good thing b/c it shows she's likely still interested. People don't get upset about things to which they are indifferent (i.e, don't care).

And lo and behold, you stood up to her and what did she do? SHE APOLOGIZED TO YOU.

Taking back control means you are earning back her respect. She may not like what you're doing, but she will RESPECT it. And that is a critical component to her loving you.

Stay the course. You are just too busy to have long discussions, or ANY R discussions. If you simply cannot get out of a R talk, just listen, validate and tell her you will have to hink it over b/c you just don't know how you feel right now.

You can handle this.

[Cadet]

If you simply cannot get out of a R talk, just listen, validate and tell her you will have to think it over b/c you just don't know how you feel right now.

Be mysterious if you must talk. But I think you should wait for actions.

[williaij]

She is the type that wants answers. She told me that she wants to know before Monday so that she knows where we stand. This is the part that I didn't think through. How do I convey to her that this is not up to her to decide? She already felt if I was controlling. Although looking bcak at it it was controling through inaction which is different than what I am doing now.

She stated again that she wanted to talk about the conv we had last night. She wanted to talk about it b/c she stated she said some things that she wanted to either take back or explain. She refered to things that were hurtful. I can validate but she is looking for answers from me. Is it "normal" for WAS types to get very angry when all you are doing is validating and they want answers.

She wants to know if we are going to reconcile or not. I feel that is a topic for way in the future. Kind of like don't touch it with a 10 ft pole kind of stuff. She is all over the map right now.

OldPilot: Could you expand upon "wait for actions". What actions am I looking for from her?

Thanks again

[Ready2Change]

I am glad you are back in MB. How does that feel?


I would like to strongly suggest that you make all your decisions based on what is the right thing to do. The counter-intuitive things you have done, are the right thing to do. They are working. Keep them up.

You are a MAN. You are going to make your decisions calmly. Just think of Clint Eastwood. How does he make his decisions? He just does the right thing.

Anyway, keep up the positive changes. Learn from each interaction. Talking about the R is NOT the answer. Changes in the way you interact with her are the answer. When Talking moves to R, "I have decided we have talked enough" and walk away......

[givingitmyall]

W,

She's testing you again. And now is NOT the time to back down. You will discuss the R when YOU are ready. And right now, you aren't. If she can't live with that, she's going to do what she is going to do. And you have NO CONTROL over her or her actions.

Why is she in such a rush to force YOU to take her back? What have YOU done wrong?

Expect her to get angry, ugly and maybe even say some (more) hurtful things. Those are all good signs b/c they mean (a) you are doing the right thing and (b) she still cares.

You want to convey calmness and stregth. No matter what she does. Get used to saying "I'm sorry you feel that way." You aren't agreeing she is right, just that you understand and validate her feelings.

Remember, words are cheap. It's actions, actions from HER you want to see. And, I can't speak for Old Pilot, but I would imagine that's what he meant in his post to you.

[givingitmyall]

Here's a reading list for you I got from another poster (sandi):

WAW Do’s/Don’t’s
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore!
2. No frequent phone calls to him/her.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to him/her through
conversation.....say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, etc.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention. (Remember, you are drawing him/her back with this technique.)
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.)
8. Do not buy gifts. (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together. (That is pursuing.)
10.Do not spy on spouse. (Not good for you and will make
matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make him/her say it too......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act as if you are moving on with your life!
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times!
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do
things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the
conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be scarce or
short on words. If he/she asks what's wrong....just
say "nothing". Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an
argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home!
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!)
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse
happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around, somebody that is attractive and fun.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let him/her trap you into a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how he/she feels (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.)
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give him/her space and time.
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil)
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.
30.Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting
more than ever and are desperate and needy
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what
you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

[Ready2Change]

She is the type that wants answers.

Good. HAve you always given answers? If so, 180 with no answers.

She told me that she wants to know before Monday so that she knows where we stand.

This is a test. Do not give her any information about the future or talk about the past. PROJECT that you are "Happy" now.

This is the part that I didn't think through. How do I convey to her that this is not up to her to decide?

You keep making changes. You be respectful.

Either one of you can decide if you want to separate. You are no longer under her spell. You make your decisions on what is best for you and your kids. UNDERSTANDING BOUNDARIES IS VERY IMPORTANT. Go read the boundaries thread. My last one worked. She still has a right to say no, but she will deal with the consequences of her choices.

"When you (irresponsible behavior)
I Feel (angry,sad,disappointed,regret)
If you continue (irresponsible behavior) Then I will behave this way. If you choose (responsible hehavior), then I will behave this way.

She already felt if I was controlling.

Boundaries put the choices back on her. You are no longer controlling. YOu gain respect.

W: "You are controlling"
"I am sorry you feel I am controlling" and leave it at that. Do not defend your choices or actions.

She stated again that she wanted to talk about the conv we had last night

Has R talk ever worked for anyone at this stage? I would like to strongly suggest that you are in control of your choices and that AVOIDING R TALK LIKE THE PLAGUE has worked for others and is your best choice.

She wanted to talk about it b/c she stated she said some things that she wanted to either take back or explain. She refered to things that were hurtful.

AVOID THIS.

I can validate but she is looking for answers from me.

Validate, but DO NOT ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

"I am not sure, I will need time to think about that"

Is it "normal" for WAS types to get very angry when all you are doing is validating and they want answers.

YES. Let her OWN all her anger. She needs to deal with it. It is not your job to deal with her anger.

"You look(sound) angry."
"Yes, I understand that"
"You have said that before, if you have anything new to say, I will listen, other wise I am done talking"

She wants to know if we are going to reconcile or not.

DO NOT GIVE HER AN ANSWER. You now need lots of "ACTION" from her part. Actions are changes in HER behavior and words that show she is willing to do the work.

You can set boundaries on this. Think of some and run them past us.

[williaij]

Thanks ev1, I will write more later. W is hovering.

[Cadet]

I think everyone else explained my meaning better than I can do. Listen. Open your eyes. Shut your mouth.

[Norm914]

W,

Read up on your sitch. I agree with R2Change.

“She wants answers.” What about what you want? DO NOT give in to her demands. This is not her show. It’s a two way street. Some other possible responses to her:

“I prefer not to discuss it now, and what’s the rush?”

“Any discussion about our relationship is too important to be rushed and certainly cannot be resolved in a single discussion. I prefer to hold off on this for now. Please understand that I will not be pressured or dictated to on this matter.” This worked wonderfully for me. It shows strength and puts off the conversation indefinitely. But be ready. It will piss her off. Let her stew.

Just my .02

Norm