Newbie with almost WAW - Need Advice

[sandi2]

BTW, you understand that I am not refering to the LBH "confronting" his WAW about her A.

[chatterbug]

The thing about exposure is you have to realize that if the WAW goes back to her LBH, then why would she want to ML to the man who exposed her at work, to friends, and to family? I know most answers would probably be that "she" did that by putting herself in that position. But, thinking like a WAW in an A, I believe the LBH must be very careful and think that through long enough that he feels that is the only thing he can do to turn things around. Do not do something that will come back and haunt the MR later, if reconciliation comes.

There have been two or three LBH's just within the past few days who have made that decision. One, has just stopped posting and I don't know what happened. One said he was going to give wife the two weeks notice last night unless we didn't think he should. Well, that wasn't enough time for the board to respond...on a holiday night, especially. Besides, he had just come on the board and only had a couple of pages of posts. That's not long enough to gather all the DB information one needS, IMHO. I didn't think he had enough information about the "how-tos" and was still waiting to talk to his lawyer, etc. He had what seem to be conflicting intel. IDK why I'm telling you this, except it really bothers me. I had only recently changed my mind and the exposure technique.....and I am in no way one to give advice about how to do it, but found myself with the last couple of LBH's trying to tell them. They need to talk to a man who has actually done this. Not me.

So, I am very concerned....about all of this. I take the advice we give as serious b/c it affects lives. I don't feel that you are the type that will be implusive and do something like that without fully thinking it through.

Anyway, guess I just needed to talk about it.

Hi Sandi. You know I am a believer in exposure. But it must be swift and not in stages.
Exposure to Immediate family, very close friends, Other person's spouse and work ( if its a work affair ) (The only reason I did not expose to work was because OPW said not to. Thinking back I know I made a huge mistake here, listening to OPW )
The reason to expose is to take the affair out of the dark and put it into the light. Now friends and family can begin to support the marriage and disappove of the affair. LBS and family gets the support of close friends and family while they break down and fall apart. They are no longer alone in this horrible event. The person committing the adultry does not get a chance to spin their story. I call it the grief vs guilt conversations. Exposure attacks with guilt conversations. Exposure is also another way of attacking the OP and keeping them out of the big picutre.

Your attacking the fantasy. Showing the hurt the adultry causes to family and friends. Not just the LBS and children.

But, you are also setting up the frame work for support if the couple decide to get back together. Those who supported the marriage during the affair will support the marriage during the difficult times afterwards.


Now when to expose and not to expose?

If its just the beginning of an EA or a one night stand. I think exposure should be limited to the spouse. Work with them to end it and detemerine why it happened. Even then I think exposure to Parents or an older child and a good mutural support friend can be called for.

But if its a full blown on EA/PA and you know your spouse has checked out of the marriage. Then full exposure. But it must be planned out. This is a LRT of a good plan A. Some times this is enough to force the affair to end. Shame is a very powerful emotion.

You have to remember Sandi. That the great race is on. Both the LBS and WAS are in full flight. In my stitch. Exposure has killed any attempt of having the OM around her family. They will have nothing to do with him. Mutual friends will have nothing to do with him either. That part of her life is only her's. He is not allowed there. This creates seperate lives. It also creates pressure on the WAS. Every interaction with these people is now different. They know why I am not at a family function. They know why she is there alone. She also knows why she is there alone. She also knows that her fantasy of everyone accepting what she did is a lie.

Yes this is punishment. But if the WAS ever exits the fog. They will see that friends and family supported them and not the affair. Where they take that is up to them.

[12bar]

Sandi/Cutter

Exposure is one of the aspects of my sitch that I am really wrestling with, thanks for some good discussion on this topic.

Sandi, I am definitely trying to slow down, be patient and think things through at this point. I started feeling like a cornered animal during December and realize that running on full emotion is not the way to go.

It seems to me that exposure would be good for speeding the WAS down the road towards hitting rock bottom by turning on the shame/guilt spigot full blast while at the same time, possibly upsetting their support network (family, friends, etc.). I can see how this could be an effective strategy in many sitches. The reason I have been hesitant to do it in mine is:

Work Exposure (I admit that I would love to be able to confront him and expose this to his boss, I think he would turn tail if I did)

- worried about jeopardizing my own job which I will need to keep if she ever leaves

- W is highly accomplished in her career, exposure would most likely make her resent me strongly

- Jeopardizing her job jeopardizes our financial security as we require both incomes to meet obligations

Family Exposure

- We live very far from family and very infrequent contact (phone conversations once a month or so) so I don't know how much pressure this would put on her

- Again, resentment

I know this is a weak position but in my sitch, we have no kids and my W is capable of completely supporting herself. The only reasons for her to stay with me are if she just really wants to be with me, our friendship, the fact that our intimate relationship used to be a good one, our shared 13-14 years of history and also because we do have a lot tied up together in terms of assets.

My wife is a very strong, proud woman but she is not good at confronting her emotions. I was reading Deep's thread today (congrats on R and new baby BTW!) and he had a cautionary note that his W said that she would have walked if she had to bear the full brunt of guilt, shame, withdrawal from OM and his hurt all at once, even though she wanted to stay. My W has repeatedly said that she can't stand to see me in pain. I sometimes think if I force my W to fully hit bottom all at once, she would not be able to confront this effectively, I think she would run. I want my W to fully own what she did to be sure, but I have been feeling like each WAS is still an individual and that DB may have to look a little different from sitch to sitch.

I hate to be in the position of "outshining" the OM but it seems like all that I have. This is why I have really been on the fence about exposure. I am afraid that my current approach could be a long ride and this is already affecting me so much physically (still not sleeping well).

I guess at the end of the day, looking over what I just wrote, my approach is based on fear. Fear that I will lose my W, job, etc. I want to save my M first and foremost, but I also want to keep my dignity and regain my self-respect and respect of my W. This is a difficult balancing act!

[12bar]

Definitely, I have confronted her a few times on this and will continue to do so if she is ever blatantly doing it in front of me. She knows how I feel about her A and that it is not something that I will tolerate indefinitely. I still have no new intel on the status of the A. She still has her phone glued to her which tells me things are still on to some extent.

I still need to work on a consequence strategy - what and when...

[12bar]

Hi Awoken, thanks for the input on my plan! As you can see, still working on the exposure piece of the puzzle...

1. PMA, PMA, PMA! If I find this challenging, may have to start ADs

I'm using the book "learned optimism", and it's been pretty helpful so far.
The AD's take at least two weeks before they start to have any benefit; maybe you should start them anyway?

Read Learned optimism back in November and can't say enough good about that book. I think it helped me to generate the burst of PMA that I had back then.

2. Continue to work on positive changes in my life, especially the ones that I know that I need and that she has placed on the laundry list. Try to regain some of her respect.

3. Start going to MC, let her know that she is welcome to come and let her know each time I go. Continue with my therapy for depression.

Both of these sound like they might be about her. I suggest you work on the changes in your life that think YOU need to make...snip...

Again, if she is not interested in MC, why tell her? I'm worried it just going to be part of a guilt-trip for her.

I have to admit that a lot of the changes that she wants to see are things that I want to see and are long overdue. I tell her all the time about losing the weight and never do so she sees me as all talk and no action. I must show action at this point! Your advice on the MC is well taken.

5. Learn to love myself, regain my self respect. Set goals for self improvement. Continue to read self-improvement books

Part of your plan/goals is to "set goals"? I dunno if this is you or not, but I found I've spent too much time reading self-help books, and not enough time doing stuff to help myself.
I suggest you write down or post exactly what your goals for self-improvement are.

I quite possibly have an addiction to self help books right now..LOL For now, they are giving me some hope that things will improve for me no matter what happens with the M but you are right that at some point, I have to just get out there and start living my better life.

9. GAL. I am really bad about this.

Yes, this is hard! Imagine what you WANT out of life (I'm not talking about saving your M), and go after it...daily.
Don't make GAL decisions based on what will impact your W, or on what will save your M.

I really do know that it has to be for me, but at this point, it is hard to not have the hidden agenda tucked away somewhere in the back of your mind!

Sandi gave you such great replies, so I'm just pitching in here. Let me tell you, I'm replying here as part of my own GAL plans. I'm not very social, and participating in the forums here is a big step outside my comfort zone.

I wish you the best, Junco!

Me too my friend! I tend to be very shy and reserved until people get to know me. Posting on this board has been a good step for me. Let me know if you come across any good resources for becoming more outgoing socially - I am reading some books on that now too as part of my improvement plan.

Thanks - Junco

[Sleepy]

Junco,

You have piped in on my thread a few times and today I finally had some time to read through yours. I learned quite a bit. It's so hard and I'm sorry both of us have to go through all this pain.

I was looking at one of Sandi's comments about when she was a WAW. The thing that would have made her turn around on a dime was if her H started another relationship. Personally, I think my situation turned around when my W noticed other W pursuing me. She still thinks that I have a something going with another W. I don't, but I only let her think it.

I think you should maintain your boundaries but if you could find a female friend who you could confide in, go out with as friends, text you etc. that might go a long way in turning this around. Just my 2 pennies.

[12bar]

Hey TriDoc

Thanks for checking in on my thread! I have still been keeping up with yours and it seems like you are doing good still. Hopefully you can get the Retrouvaille for your B-day, I would love to get my W to go to that but that is way off for us right now.

BTW, your sitch has been interesting with regards to developing a little mystery. The interest that it has stirred in your W is not lost on me! I am going to try some meetup groups at least until bike season starts back up. The funny thing is that I never have been one to sit around typing on the computer at home (get enough of that at work) but I have been posting a lot lately on this board and I think it has my W wondering what I am doing. I do a lot of the posting when I am sitting in the room with her using my iPhone too so maybe that generates some "mystery" as well.

How has the Art of Seduction book been working out?

Take care and Happy New Year!

[Sleepy]

Junco,

It's amazing that you can post on this board without your wife snooping and finding out. I have to keep this forum so hidden. I have a mac at home so I can selectively delete the history of my visits here. I also delete the history on my iphone. If she found this, I would be in real trouble. This is a circle of friends that I don't want her to discover;-)

Everyone here has given me the strength to make it through all this. I would have continued to do the wrong things if I hadn't come here.

Your sitch will continue to be in my prayers and I will follow along with you too.

Best,

[sandi2]

Hey Cutter. I know all the points you are making. I understand them. I'm just talking from the POV of a WAW in an EA. You may make perfect logical sense, but remember that the WAW is in that fog and she will not see it the same way. As far as shame, punishment, all of that sort of emotional guilt baggage......I would not have stayed in my M if my H had exposed me to our friends & relatives. I can only speak for me and my situation, but I think this quote from another WAW says it best:

his W said that she would have walked if she had to bear the full brunt of guilt, shame, withdrawal from OM and his hurt all at once, even though she wanted to stay.

I could not have handled all of it in one dose, either. I do believe there are some cases that certain things have to be considered. It may have worked for Puppy in his stitch (and that was the one that finally swayed me to the exposure technique)but even after that.....I know it would not have worked for me. It scares me to death to think what I would have done or what "rock bottom" may have meant for me before I would have come back into this MR and faced everyone who knew me, and knowing that I had to bear the scarlette "A" on my forehead for the rest of my life. The H may find a way to forgive, but the town, gossipy friends, and relatives are not near as forgiving. The WAW is the subject at every family reunion, the office's latest topic, the neighborhood.....well, you get the idea.

I once asked Puppy--if the H was addicted to porn should that be "exposed" like exposing the WAW in an EA. He thought it should. However, I still have a problem exposing to the world what is a private matter at home and between a H & W. And you might as well say to the world, b/c if you tell a few friends....family.....please, the world will know pretty soon!

I'm not going back on what I have suggested to LBH's who have a WAW in an A, but I don't think I am qualified to answer their questions and tell them "how to".....and I feel like I have been left doing that lately. (Nobody's fault....just the way it fell.) It's not a good feeling and I have not done a good job at it. I would feel very responsible if it made things worse.

I agree about a lot of the things you said in favor of the exposure. I really do. But, I believe it should be when the W is boldly rebelious about her A and more or less rubs the H's nose in it....as if to laugh in his face about giving up the OM. That is about the only time that I feel comfortable in telling a man to hit the expose button.

Not trying to create an argument b/c I've been down this road with Pup and another one or two before. I was mainly upset at another thread I had read this morning. I felt like I was partly responsible for that newcomer acting too quickly in exposing....before he had all the information he needed. I wanted Junco to be sure of what he was doing before acting.

[Sleepy]

I agree with Sandi. The day I found out about my wife's A, I could hardly function at work. People wondered what was wrong and I confided in them even though I told them to stay quiet. This was the WRONG thing to do! Words spread like wild fire.

My W says that we might have been able to work through things if this information wasn't out. Now she wants to walk.

It was the wrong thing to do because it was self motivated. If I had the attitude that I wanted to protect my spouse I wouldn't have said anything. I spilled my guts now I have to deal with the carnage it caused.