"Don't let life discourage you; everyone who got where he is had to begin where he was." -Richard L. Evans
undefeated 24 H 24 S's 4, 2, 1 M 5 yrs
"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all." ~Dale Carnegie
I would say something to the effect of "things are strained between us right now, and I am feeling rejected, which is a source of unhappiness and stress. I am afraid that I lashed out at you in my frustration."
I like this!
Lotus, I didnt realize that girls had a bat mitzvah too! Learned something new today!
I guess I gave the wrong finger to the wrong man...
Oh, yes, I didn't mention that I liked that idea too, Lotus.
For the moment I have decided to continue not saying anything at all about what is going on between my H and me. I did send off my apology e-mail, but haven't heard back yet. I'm not particularly interested one way or the other now. If they decide to forgive me, fine; if not, well, I don't think I'm missing much anyway.
I have in the last year or so begun to realize that my own dad has a lot of qualities I don't really like either. I mean, we have a lot of good things in common - a love of John Wayne, the ability to chat for hours...um, ok that's all I'm coming up with right now, but I'm kind of still mad at him so I bet I'll think of more later. I adore my dad, always have. I thought he was right about just about everything. But I feel like as I grow into my own person I can see him more clearly. As I say, this isn't something that just happened overnight; I have been gaining this for awhile. He has no tolerance for normal childlike behavior unless it was his idea. All my kids seem to hear as long as he is in the room is, "don't do that," and, "quiet down." I understand they shouldn't yell or run, but children need to play, to be children. That is actually what we argued about tonight. He tells the kids if they climb down off the couch (he doesn't sit one the couch btw, he has a recliner) then they have to stay off for an indefinite amount of time, and also that they need to either sit and watch tv or go play, but not to switch between one and the other.
Maybe I should explain that my parents live in a renovated church and that the only area they have designated as appropriate for the children to play is at the front of the living room (also where the tv is).
So I said to him (in an effort to speak up when I feel something is wrong ) "I don't understand that rule. The kids get up and down on the furniture, but so do we. We go into other rooms and come back, get up to do this or that. And we also do plenty of other things while we watch tv - play cards, read a book, play on the computer, go through catalogs (my dad does this frequently!)."
He got really offended, even though I intentionally stayed very calm and reasonable. He said, "Well those are my rules."
Me: "I know dad, but they have to live here and they are kids. They need more flexibility."
Dad: "Well it's my house and my rules. When they live in your house they can do what you want."
I was furious, so I left the room and started cleaning the kitchen. He is absolutely right - this is his house. But he invited us to live here for six to eight months knowing that these were little kids. They aren't adults.
I've also noticed that I tend to get my idea that my way to do things is the right way comes from him. I'm working on that, letting things go. LOL, though I still have OCD with the cleaning when I'm mad apparently! On another note, he loves fishing; I've been going with him since I was four or five. I even kept going out to the ponds with him long after my brothers gave it up. I realized this summer that I actually hate fishing. I've been going because he likes to have someone go, which isn't really a bad thing. Just one of those things that has sort of dawned on me.
He also loves to use guilt trips. He plays at being sad and left out, knowing full well that it actually has an effect on me. And I have sworn that the word "disappointed" is banned from my house for anything less than murdering someone. He never needed to spank me or ground me. All he would have to say when I did something wrong is "I am very disappointed in you" and I was crushed, sometimes literally for weeks. And he used it for everything from not doing the dishes to getting a speeding ticket. It still to this day has a negative impact on me! I had to tell him shortly after we got here in August that he cannot use it on my kids - that the effects are devastating and long-lasting.
Ok, got that out.
I also called my H tonight. I wanted to know if he had heard from the housing agency (he hasn't) and that maybe he could start looking for a cheap enough place off the base instead. I told him about the growing difficulties with my dad, and my concern that this isn't the best place for our kids. He agrees. And he is going to talk to a landlord in the area someone referred him to.
We also talked about S4's behavior. He told me he had figured all along that anxiety was the problem. I let that go, even though I found it kind of irritating. Everyone I mention it to now says they always knew exactly what was wrong with him, and that I should have known too. I wondered, I guess, if that was part of the problem, but it still feels good to have a professional opinion. And where were all these people with an idea when I told them what was going on? As I said, little irritated about that.
He talked about the horrible barracks he's currently living in. I thought he was still in a hotel, so this was a relief to me. After ten days in base lodging he either has to get a house, move into the barracks, or start paying for the hotel out of his own pocket.
After that I went inside, told him to have a good night, and hung up.
The thing is, I saw a much needed ray of light in this conversation. It was still very fact-oriented and brief, but he sounded very warm toward me, as though he wanted to stay on the phone and talk to me longer (though he didn't actually say that.) In the past he hasn't wanted to talk and has generally given the impression that even answering my calls was an inconvenience. And now I am the one ending the conversations. I am the one with something to do (though I never say what) and though I'm friendly I'm also ready to get off the phone. It feels good, like I'm in control of the situation.
It was a small thing, and it is even possible that it was a fluke, but I really needed a good moment. I've been feeling very down and this, to me, feels like a baby step.
undefeated 24 H 24 S's 4, 2, 1 M 5 yrs
"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all." ~Dale Carnegie
In the past he hasn't wanted to talk and has generally given the impression that even answering my calls was an inconvenience. And now I am the one ending the conversations. I am the one with something to do (though I never say what) and though I'm friendly I'm also ready to get off the phone. It feels good, like I'm in control of the situation.
Thats exactly whats going on! A big part of how well we cope with situations is how much we feel out of control. Im glad that you are feeling good- now dont give that control up.
As far as your dad goes... thats a tough one. Your right, he does have the right to put some rules down, but you do need to stand up for your kiddos when hes being unreasonable! So, your fury is warranted, dont feel bad! What about making sure to take the kids somewhere for some much needed energy burnoff?
I guess I gave the wrong finger to the wrong man...
Well, it's finally here! My husband sent me a text last night that he can sign for our house on January 15th! And then our household goods will be delivered shortly thereafter. Whew. That's one thing off my mind.
My MIL is speaking to me again, which I suppose is good. And she even apologized for overstepping her boundaries. I think I may invite them to come down and see the kids again this weekend (they stay in a hotel rather than with us) since we will be leaving soon. A show of good faith.
I'm very excited to be moving, but also apprehensive. It was so unfair - my mind cheated me of my excitement last night and I couldn't seem to redirect my thoughts. As soon as I got done talking to my H on the phone about the house I started thinking how worried I am about this being a good thing. We are so rough in our marriage right now, and I cry so much still. I need to be (or at least appear) strong and happy and motivated...like I was when we dated. But I don't feel that way much yet.
What seems silliest to me right now is how upset I've been with him for being absent these last few weeks. I've spent about half of our five year marriage taking care of everything by myself. So what's the big deal now? I suppose it must be the A. So I'm trying to detach. She's not that important and I can change things in spite of her. This too shall pass.
Right now I'm trying to decide what approach to use once we get moved in with my H again. Do I act as if things are good between us except for the A (which I won't discuss or bring up at all) and hope things go well as a result? Or should I act like we're roommates and let him feel what life will be like without me? Or should I try something else entirely?
I'm still working on my 180's and GAL. And I'll keep doing that no matter what goes on with him. But I think it may be even tougher in some ways being with him than apart. There are definitely more pros than cons, though!
Wish me luck, my friends. I am so sick of moving! Actually I'm mostly sick of packing. And I'm open to suggestions on how to approach things once we are there.
undefeated 24 H 24 S's 4, 2, 1 M 5 yrs
"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all." ~Dale Carnegie
Congratulations, Cheater. I think the best tack once you are back together with your H is to act as if everything is fine. Be as nice to him as you would be to a new beau. Treat him like time with him is special, i.e., dress up, wear make-up, don't curse, say please, thank you, hello, good by, good morning, etc. You need to be the woman who he wants to be with, not the woman he has to be with.
I agree with Lotus, its important for LBS's to make themselves the better alternative... the by-product of that is that very often we become not only a better alternative, but a better person in the process.
When you get there the goal is Zero pressure. No I love yous, no holding hands, be careful with making love, you need to make him miss being your H, if you prepare dinner, dont serve him. If you are taking the kiddos to do something fun, make sure that you mention it in front of him, but dont directly invite him.
No matter what happens undefeated, if he says that he wants to try again... Dont rush in. Be extremely cautious! Im not saying that he will try to fool you or whatever, but its really easy to rush into these things and make mistakes that sabotage all of your hardwork.
You need to set boundaries, "I will not share you with another woman". And you need to learn to validate what hes going to say. If hes venting about things that you "never" do, or "always" do, just validate, you dont have to agree(mostly because hes probably not going to be right!), but you do need to show him that you respect his feelings. Just say, "I understand how you could feel that way" If he says this will never work, or theres too much wrong to fix, you say "Im sorry that you feel that way."
Dont engage him in arguements, this is a big one! If things get heated, leave the conversation, leave the room, leave the building, just get away from it, arguements are emotionally charged, and we dont make good choices, or logical points when we lose control and get emotional!
Most of all, I know that your fam doesnt know whats going on here, so reach out and use your support group, be it us, or old friends, whoever it is, make sure that you dont try to take it all on yourself. You will turn into a basket case!
I think that your going to be fine my lady. No matter what happens.
I guess I gave the wrong finger to the wrong man...
I agree with Lotus, its important for LBS's to make themselves the better alternative... the by-product of that is that very often we become not only a better alternative, but a better person in the process.
When you get there the goal is Zero pressure. No I love yous, no holding hands, be careful with making love, you need to make him miss being your H, if you prepare dinner, dont serve him. If you are taking the kiddos to do something fun, make sure that you mention it in front of him, but dont directly invite him.
I don't get it. How do I do both of these things at once? I mean, ok I don't say I love you so I'm not pressuring him. But if I were the "the old me" the fun one he used to want to be with, I'd be affectionate and go out of my way to do stuff for him. It seems like not taking care of him - not getting him dinner when I get mine or not including him in family stuff - is just mean. Why would he want to be with someone who is fun with other people, fun with the kids, pretty to look at, but just mean to him?
Originally Posted By: bluerain
No matter what happens undefeated, if he says that he wants to try again... Dont rush in. Be extremely cautious! Im not saying that he will try to fool you or whatever, but its really easy to rush into these things and make mistakes that sabotage all of your hardwork.
Ok this I get. I'm not likely to believe anything is ok, even it seems like it for awhile. That's how I got here. Everything seemed ok.
Originally Posted By: bluerain
You need to set boundaries, "I will not share you with another woman".
Again, I don't think I even know what that means. I mean, guess I could say that to him if he tries to have sex with me. As long as he's in an A, it's not making love. Believe me, I've been there already from the other side. Even for the spouse who's in the A, it's a sad and lonely experience to have sex with someone instead of making love to them. But unless I intend to stay entirely closed off from him, then how exactly is just saying that a boundary? And again, if I am closed off from him, how exactly is that attractive? Doesn't that just make her seem warm and caring where I am seem cold and distant?
I'm really not trying to tell you you're wrong or that these aren't good approaches. But I really don't understand. I'm at a loss as to how to make this all go together.
Originally Posted By: bluerain
Dont engage him in arguements, this is a big one! If things get heated, leave the conversation, leave the room, leave the building, just get away from it, arguements are emotionally charged, and we dont make good choices, or logical points when we lose control and get emotional!
There's no emoticon that smiles and cries at the same time. He never argues with me. If I bring up something, especially if I am emotional then he just says, "whatever," or gets totally silent and has nothing to say at all. So I don't express myself to him and then he thinks I'm ok, even when I'm not. And if he does ask me what's wrong and I give him an answer then he just has nothing to say again. So I don't know what to do on that front. I mean, I guess you're right. There's no point arguing with a brick wall anyway. It just feels like, no matter which way I play it he shuts down and doesn't care. As long as I pretend to be ok, then he is fine with being around me.
So please, tell me what to do. I know it probably sounds like I just want answers handed to me, but I feel out of ideas. Should I go back to calling him just to say hi, or keep not contacting him? I feel utterly unimportant to him. And it seems like if I do more without him or seem happy no matter how he treats me, then that just continues the illusion that his actions are unimportant and don't affect me. I don't get it.
And here's another thing. Now that I can think more clearly (when i'm not confused and crying because I have no idea what the heck I'm doing right or wrong) I have easily identified behaviors that drove him away in the past.
I was so horribly critical. I always wanted things done my way, "the right way." So instead of just saying thank you when he did things (if I noticed them at all) I criticized him. Why couldn't I just say thank you?
And he has always shown a great deal of faith in me - I wanted to go to college even though he had no idea how we would afford it, he let me start a business and it failed, he let me start a second business even though the first one failed, he always tells me he knows I can handle things when he isn't around. But I didn't return the favor. He comes up with ideas - things he could build or crazy fun things we could do someday. And I pretend to show enthusiasm, but I can see now how fake it was, and that he knew it all along. And even if I did tell him it was a good idea I told him to do it, not that we could do it together.
So how do I fix it? He doesn't try to help me much anymore because I've been so obnoxious and critical in the past. I don't blame him. And he doesn't share his ideas with me because he feels like I won't take him seriously and be supportive.
And what's so sad is now that I know these things and want to tell him so badly, he wouldn't want to hear it. Do I ask him for help, or do I just leave things undone and hope he tries so I can thank him? And do I ask for his input/ideas? I have tried but he says "I don't know" or I don't care." I'm just at a loss.
And I'm sorry; I know I must sound pathetic. But I feel like I have to figure out what to do and fast because now we're getting the house. I don't have time to figure this out slowly. I need some tools in a hurry and I guess I have them (sort of) after reading the books, but how do I know whether I need a crescent wrench or pliers?
Thanks guys. You really are helping me, even if I seem crazy and lost.
undefeated 24 H 24 S's 4, 2, 1 M 5 yrs
"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all." ~Dale Carnegie
Ok, so I saw H was online on Facebook, so I sent him this IM:
I'm so glad you got the house! And I know you will handle everything on that end. You're good at that. I can't wait to get moved. Hope you have a good day.
Good idea? Bad idea?
I feel like I should know what to do...
undefeated 24 H 24 S's 4, 2, 1 M 5 yrs
"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all." ~Dale Carnegie
) "I don't understand that rule. The kids get up and down on the furniture, but so do we. We go into other rooms and come back, get up to do this or that. And we also do plenty of other things while we watch tv - play cards, read a book, play on the computer, go through catalogs (my dad does this frequently!)."
And I'm open to suggestions on how to approach things once we are there.