All signs point to game over!

[Cie la vie]

Wow did I just have an interesting conversation with my STBXW sister.

Since the bomb was dropped I have had only one conversation with any of my STBXW family members who are absolutely like family to me. My W's sister has always been her closiest confidant and sounding board since the day I met my W over 22 years ago. She echo'd my analysis on her sister (my wife) in that she has become "Sybil" and completely done a personality 180. She is very concerned about her state of mind. She flat said she doesn't know who she is anymore, which is exactly what i have been saying to myself and my close confidants.

She told me that she felt like she was dealing with college girl of 26 rather than a 47 year old mother of twins. She identified the narcissitic behavior that I had witnessed and is disgusted by it. She has becomed consumed with pretentiousness which was never a personality trait she had ever exhibited before.

What does this do for me and our M? Nothing really. Our situation remains the same regardless. Her sister flat told me that the divorce will go through because it will take sometime for my STBX to work through this MLC.

She also indicated to me that my STBXW entire immediate family is not in agreement with her decision to dissolve the M. This made me feel better to know that I am not alone in my thinking, however, it again doesn't change what is happening. It did, however, give me additional resolve to continue to DB to the best of my ability. Maybe just maybe her fog will lift and her A will die and we can piece our M and family back together. If not I know I have the support of her family and not at my STBXW expense.

So I ask again for advice and counsel on some DBing strategies that I maybe over looking or that need refining from those in the know. Please read a few of my posts to get an idea of my area's of need. It is greatly appreciated.

[mlawd1]

Hey man, sorry for the sitch.....Reading yours made me think alot about mine......All classic, except I don't think mine was ever quite as nasty....Not sure what to make of that.....It is all about them though, and don't forget that....

My divorce has been final for over a year and mine is just now beginning to come back to earth....Where it goes from here is anyone's guess, but we are talking some.....

One thing I would caution you about, My ex-sil was really good to me too.....We talked about alot of stuff.....However, blood is thicker than water and some things came back to bite me in the butt.....Just be careful

[Cie la vie]

Very good point mlwawd1 and thank you for the updated acronym SIL. I missed that one.

The SIL did strongly request that I do not tell the STBX the content of our conversation. This was clearly a no brainer. But I couldn't agree with you more on the blood is thicker than water comment. I will tread lightly around her family members with any sensitive information.

As much as I would like to prevent this D from reaching D day. I believe I will be in your shoes in the coming months. What was your sitch? Are there kids involved? The kid issue tears me apart.

[mnt_dreams]

Cie la vie: I like your user name... it's an optimistic phrase and a good mindset to have.

It's great to have the support of her family for now but you have to assume anything you're sharing with SIL, etc. could be shared with your W so choose your words carefully. If you are GAL and acting 'as if', then you need to convey that to her family as well.

I still email with my FIL regularly, but I know that anything I share could be forwarded to H so that's just something to keep in mind.

[Cie la vie]

Hello mntd,

The user name just popped in my head as I was signing up here. It does kind of ground my thinking a bit.

I hear you loud and clear regarding the SIL relationship. I am quite leary of opening up any conversation that could be detrimental to my cause. I work from the premise that everything discussed may ended up in the ear or my W. Even given the fact that the SIL indicated to me that her relationship with my W is hangin by a thread do to the fact that she read my W the riot act about filing for D. All that can turn on a dime however.

We have our first round of Mediation today and a lot of answers about how my W intends to act should be unveiled. I am reminding myself to be cool, calm, collected and confident and avoid adveseral interaction as much as possible.

My mantra is what is best for the kids is best for me. I will repeat through out the process should my W stray toward selfish me first behavior. Which appears to me the hallmark of her current mindset.

I see you are from Colorado. I love your state. I'm a avid Mountaineer/Alpinist and have spent some good times in the Front Range climbing rock and bagging Peaks. The Diamond on Longs Peak is one of my favorites.

Thanks for you input and advice on my sitch. Happy New Year!

[mnt_dreams]

Happy New Year to you too! Let us know how the mediation went and keep posting. It's good for you. I'm glad your SIL is in your corner, and glad you're assuming anything you say could be shared with W. Sorry you're in this situation, but keep DB'g. Anything's possible.

Yes, I feel lucky to be in CO. I haven't hiked many 14ers but maybe I need to add this to my bucket list. I bet there's some good climbing in CA; Yosemite, right?

[Dane]

CLV,
Tell us about the mediation session. What did you learn, how did it go, how you acted, how wife acted?
Need some details, many of us are headed there.

Thanks and I keep praying for us all.

[imLIN]

Cie la vie...like the name

I have read through your entire thread...good job on the drinking...my H was also a drinker and I do think in time had he not been the one to leave it very well could have broken our marriage up...he also quit and has no desire but he was diagnosed with alcoholism because of his binges...

I also live in CA...no fault, just as you know, doesn't even allow you to bring up trash in court proceedings...a judge won't hear it unless it is done in full view of the children and is a danger to them...

I also hate that a WAS can totally ruin your life but benefit from the marriage's end...not fair but that is California...

It sounds like full blown MLC...my H also had an A with a woman that lived a few states away...left me...but when it came down to it she could not move to CA and could not move to her state...so things fizzled and died...

Some ideas I have for you...get off of all joint CC with her...my H ran up $200,000 in debts and he didn't even have a paying job at the time!!! I was smart and obtained a legal seperation and cut my name off of everything attached to him except our home...so even though he has returned I am still protected in our community property state because of the legal seperation that I procured at the beginning of his insanity...

You can ask for a delay on the divorce...I am not sure if she has to agree or not...I did this many times because I did feel sure that given time H and I would reconcile but if the divorce became final I would have not been in contact with him (long story on that part...)

I can almost guarantee that this A of your WAW's will not last...it may go on for a while but eventually life will rear it's head and it won't be so rosey...I know of many, H's and W's who have gone this route and it doesn't lead to anywhere except a lot of destruction along the way...

Believe it or not...a marriage can recover from a full blown A...but you have to be able to get past the hurt on your side...what helped me was that how my H was acting, like you have explained with your W, was sooo out of character for him...we had a history together and this was not any part of that history...even his adult children would not speak to him even though we all still lived together...after he left that was it for them...and on daughter did not speak to him for nearly a year after he moved back in the house...she meant business and played hard ball with him but the "real" H had returned and could see that he deserved it and had to win her back as well...

It is forgiveable...it is possible to rebuild trust (this was hard for me to see in the moment of the MLC and frankly I did not think it was possible)...it possible to build a better marriage...one where BOTH can be happy again...

WAW are different from WAH...but MCL'ers seem to follow a closer pattern...women tend to keep things in until they explode like your wife did...but my H did that too...I had no idea WE had a problem as he had told me the drinking, the depression, and other signs that did concern me were his problems...not OURS...until the day he never returned...and the spew began...I heard all my faults over and over...like you I did examine myself and I did make changes...in time I realized that these changes needed to be for me...and they were...still are, for me...

I hope mediation goes well...but stop pushing the divorce (not that people don't remarry but I think this takes a bigger dose of swallowin the pride)...oh and as for the sexual exploration you wife is on...normal for the MLC'er...my H did the same thing...that too will return to normal(maybe even better) once they regain their balance...

Fight for your kids...fight for yourself...be prepared, CA is not friendly to H's in a divorce...but you can be strong...you can win...you can keep yourself, your dignity, your pride...and hopefully your children! Don't give up the fight...it really isn't over until the MLC is over and sorry to say, it can take years...

Lin

[Cie la vie]

Mtn_Dreams and Dane,

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond to your posts, I no longer use the home computer and responding via Blackberry is to much brain damage, so I must wait until I return to work.

Well the Mediation session went quite well for me, I executed my game plan perfectly. My plan going in was to remain cool, calm, collected and confident and remind myself that "What is best for my kids in best for me".

At the start of the Mediation our Mediator ask if he could have 15 minutes solo with each of us. We both agreed. Not much came out of this initial 15 minute solo. However, upon my W return to the room (sitting directly across from me) the mediator asked who would like to start. He requested that we explain why we choose mediation and what we hoped to accomplish.

I said I would lead off. I started out by taking full responsibility/ownership for my/the defects/issues that were a major cause of the maritial breakdown. I suggested that I was disproportionately responsible for us being where we were. I did this to defuse any defensive posture my W may have enter the room with.

I followed by explaining that I had several compelling reasons to choose Mediation over fighting this out between our attorneys in court. 1) We would spend significantly less money going this route, which would benefit our childrens future schooling and college educations. 2) I expressed the desire to have amicable future relations with my W which I believed was better served by utilizing mediation. (3) I reiterated that I felt this was the best process for all involved and particularly for the children.

It was at this point that I turned to my W I looked her in the eye and told her "I think you are a great mother and I want you to be happy", "I also want to by your friend when this is said and done". She burst into tears and through a choked up voice exclaimed "You are a great dad". I didn't cry but must admit that I welled up. This was the first true emotion I have seen my W exhibit toward me in over two months.

Needless to say I took the high ground as I have from the beginning. This approach would bear fruit throughout the remainder of the mediation. The W sufficently softend up would concede several important issues to me.

The first being the issue of "exclusive possession of the marital home". With the W moving out in a couple of weeks I would be in my oppinion unfairly saddled with the entire mortgage etc. I expressed my dissatisfaction with this reality and explained that I hadn't seeked out excl. poss. but was receiving it by default not design. My wife unsolicited said she didn't want me saddled with the full financial responsibility for the house.

This was the first payoff from my initial strategy. The agreed upon structure is fair for both parties and I cannot complain.

The second and really most important issue discussed is that of temporary child custody/visitation. My W has been angling for a one week on one week off arrangement. I and the mediator feel this is to long of period for the twins S3 & D3 to be seperated from either parent. However, my W continued to produce a laundry list of reasons why it would be best. I told both the med. and my W that I was only interested in doing what was best for the children and if that meant more work for me so be it.

It is quite obvious that my W is only interested in what is best for her and how it effects her ability to further her A. She doesn't come right out and say it but her defiance to any suggestion that would shorten the interval between handoffs is telling.

Remember the OM is nearly 2,000 mls away and three days is just not enough time together with all that travel. Her focus is clearly on her needs and everything else is a distant second. This is truly disturbing and I guess diagnostic of a individual in an A and apparently sufferning an MLC.

Although the custody issue was not resolved during this session it will be during our next session in a little over a week. I will push for what is best for the children and she will have to relent or she'll look like a selfish ass (which she is).

Round one to CLV!

Keep posting any advice and helpful tips I need them. Thanks in advance.

[Cie la vie]

imLin,

Thank you for your post.

The drinking issue was the first issue I addressed following the bomb and although I personally do not feel it was anywhere near the problem my W made it out to be I choose to shut it down regardless. I am better man for it as a result.

California will be California nothing we can do about it now.

I concure on the full blown MLC comment. There is just way to much emperical data supporting this to not arrive at that conclusion. My understanding is MLC's can take quite a while to sort themselves out. This does not bode will for R.

Virtually everyone who is preevy to my situation feels as do you that the A will run its course eventually. I prefer not to handicap it however and I am leaning toward the frame of mind that they'll marry. I believe this steels me best for the worst possible outcome.

The A seems to pick up momentum daily and I am not sure what will slow it down but it can't burn white hot forever.

We are for all practical purposes financially seperated. I saw to this immediately after seeing the Oct.-Nov. cell bill $525.00 for her alone. She also cashed one of her 401k's in early Oct.($45,000.00) and during our mediation she indicated that it was all gone! I was surprised but not shocked given the collection of new shoes, clothing, handbags, cosmetics and cosmetic dermatological procedures etc. she has accumulated over this period of time. But still ...

She is in my opinion out of control. Although she comes across perfectly lucid and resonable in conversation. Keep in mind she is unemployed and has been for 4 months. She has prospects but nothing is guaranteed in this kind of economy.

As far as pushing the divorce I am going to let her take the lead on advancing the mediation process from this point forward. It's possible she will be to preoccupied with the A to focus on moving the D forward. I could be wrong though. Time will tell.

As far as R is concerned my W current state is so far from the norm for her that I feel empathy toward her. She is clearly confused and diluded. This isn't her and eventually the real W will emerge from this and likely suffer a major emotional fallout (at least that is my hunch). I am of the mind to see how she responds to me if at all when the fog lifts.

The sexual exploration is a piece of this that has been troubling and a source of continued surprise. I continue to discover through some casual snooping and accident more sexual content. I won't go into details.


The kids and me are my focus I cannot help her she needs to take care of herself.