Sounds like you are doing well to me. First, why not date W and see how things go? After all, it isn't simply up to her whether or not things work out. You may find that you aren't interested in an R with her. Again, if you want to try, the choice is yours, set a future date to reevaluate and keep her on double-secret probation until then.
Second, I'm not a big fan of coerced C, unless it is for someone who literally needs to be committed. The more you try to coerce C, the less W will be open to it. And, clearly she is not open to it, or she would find a way to make it work. As she is not open to it, a coerced session would be pointless and a bit demeaning to her. Given you don't want to demean W or waste her time, let her make her own way to C in her own time.
Third, it sounds like you are not being a doormat and are staying detached. Both are essential. Her refusal to go to C is her choice. How it fits with your boundaries is your choice. Perhaps it is a dealbreaker for you. Perhaps not. If not, there is still probably some important boundary work here to be done. DON'T focus on fixing W by coercing her to go to C. DO FOCUS on what works for you. Exactly what behaviors are unacceptable to you? "W, I admit I hoped to encourage you to go to C, but that is really your choice to work on yourself how and when you want. I changed my FB page because it was the right thing to do if we are going to date. But, I do have some things to share with you. First, I think to give our R a fair shot, we should be exclusive. Second, the anger stuff doesn't work for me. This doesn't mean that I'll disappear at the first sign of anger. But, it does mean that I won't tolerate it forever and that it will be important to me how you grow with respect to handling your anger."
Remember, dating is a process to see how you fit together as romantic partners. YOU are checking things out just as much as she is, probably moreso, as she already proved to be unreliable...
I wasn't disappointed. I didn't expect her to act any different. I still think she needs to go to counseling for her anger issues among other things. Like I said, the glass is half full, I got to see a good movie with my daughter.
M-41 ex-W-40 Together--17 years SS-20 D-14 Bomb--2 Feb 09 WAW--6 Feb 09 Officially divorced on 2 Jun 2010!!! ex-W has a boyfriend 8 Jun 2010!!! Off we go into the wild blue yonder!!!!
Oldtimer, I understand what you are saying about the counseling. She agreed to this though. I do feel detached. Before when she would get angry it would affect the rest of my day. Now, it doesn't phase or suprise me. The other thing is, I would engage her when she's angry before and it would always be a big arguement. The main reason I want her to go to counseling is to see from an objective point of view how she is controlling. Thanks for your thoughts on this.
So, she called a bit ago and asked if my daughter had called me. I said, no isn't she with you? She said, I'm out right now, I just got a Brazilian wax done. Ok, my first thought was who for and why are you telling me this but I didn't ask. So, I wrapped that conversation up pretty quick and hung up. So, I'll ask the question, do ladies get this done for comfort or for show? And why do you suppose she would tell me something like this?
M-41 ex-W-40 Together--17 years SS-20 D-14 Bomb--2 Feb 09 WAW--6 Feb 09 Officially divorced on 2 Jun 2010!!! ex-W has a boyfriend 8 Jun 2010!!! Off we go into the wild blue yonder!!!!
She said, I'm out right now, I just got a Brazilian wax done. Ok, my first thought was who for and why are you telling me this but I didn't ask. So, I wrapped that conversation up pretty quick and hung up. So, I'll ask the question, do ladies get this done for comfort or for show? And why do you suppose she would tell me something like this?
- They get it done to feel sexy. Not for comfort or show... but to please a man. - She told you this to get you jealous on what you're missing out on.
#1 - you feel cleaner/fresher #2 - assist w/swimsuit issues #3 - if you have done it in the past, something you probably want to continue #4 - yes, you feel sexier
Me-46, D-21, S15, S13
After many years w/my head in the sand... I FILED Divorced 6/2011
The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think.
She agreed to counseling and she chickened out, probably because of fears about exposing herself to anyone much more than because someone might report her to a CO. Anyway, what are you going to do about it? If you are DONE, then act like it. It seems to me that you are not DONE. Thus, why not make your best effort to see if dating W works for you?
One session with a C will not get W to recognize that she is controlling, nor would ten. It would take a lot of work for a C to get to that point with W. So, one session with C is not the magic bullet you would like it to be.
Imagine someone asked you on a date, and you said: not until you work through your _______ problem. Probably, that R is not going to get off the ground. Generally, successful R's are built between people who like each other, treat each other well, demonstrate appreciation for each other, and so on. Take a break from focusing on the negative. Act like you want to date her. Geez.
You are starting a new R. Why is her controlling behavior a problem for you? She cannot control you unless you allow it. If she stops dating you because you don't let her control you, that's her problem. YOU are going to have to work through your capitulation issues and resentment in any R you have. You may as well try to work through them with W.
Your focus is still on fixing W. Put your focus back on YOU. How do you need to change? What boundaries do you need to set and enforce? What is acceptable to you? What will you do when anyone treats you in an unacceptable manner? You need a plan. Generally, these lines work pretty well in response to problem behavior: "Not attractive." "That doesn't work for me." "How do you feel right now?" "Whoooaaa, your behavior is troubling, are you OK?" "Ding ding, I'm outta here."
Women get Brazilian waxes when they are going to wear bathing suits or leotards or lingerie or when they want to feel sexy. I doubt W would tell you that she was getting a Brazilian for any other reason than to pique your interest.
If her being sexy and flirtatious and demonstrating sexual interest in you is a problem for you, then you should probably just file for D now.
If instead it is OK, then why not assume the BEST and respond in kind. "W, I bought you a present that will show off your Brazilian. I'd like you to wear it as we ring in the New Year together. I'll pick you up at 8:00." Then, get something very skimpy and a new sex toy to go with it. Wrap them up, pick her up. Celebrate, take charge, be dirty, talk dirty.
If she already has a date, what will you do? Unless you make it clear that you still want to try and want to be exclusive, you have no reason to complain. Of course, you are perfectly free to make those things clear.
It might be more productive for you to post in Separated at this point. Being positive, compassionate, direct, strong, and patient will help you, no matter how things turn out. Perhaps things in general are a bit too raw in newcomers for you at this point...
Imagine someone asked you on a date, and you said: not until you work through your _______ problem. Probably, that R is not going to get off the ground.
A relationship probably wouldn't get off the ground if she said, "BTW, when I'm in a relationship I generally cheat with multiple men" either.
#1 - you feel cleaner/fresher #2 - assist w/swimsuit issues #3 - if you have done it in the past, something you probably want to continue #4 - yes, you feel sexier
#5 - no more beating about the bush <wink and evil grin>
AFWAW, all the best for the new year. I hope you have something fun planned for tonight.
Imagine someone asked you on a date, and you said: not until you work through your _______ problem. Probably, that R is not going to get off the ground. Generally, successful R's are built between people who like each other, treat each other well, demonstrate appreciation for each other, and so on. Take a break from focusing on the negative. Act like you want to date her. Geez.
You are starting a new R. Why is her controlling behavior a problem for you? She cannot control you unless you allow it. If she stops dating you because you don't let her control you, that's her problem. YOU are going to have to work through your capitulation issues and resentment in any R you have. You may as well try to work through them with W.
Your focus is still on fixing W. Put your focus back on YOU. How do you need to change? What boundaries do you need to set and enforce? What is acceptable to you?
Sorry, OT, but I see a huge contradiction here. AFW has said that her getting counseling if they are to reconcile IS one of his main boundaries. And he's TRYING to enforce that.
And this:
Women get Brazilian waxes when they are going to wear bathing suits or leotards or lingerie or when they want to feel sexy. I doubt W would tell you that she was getting a Brazilian for any other reason than to pique your interest.
If her being sexy and flirtatious and demonstrating sexual interest in you is a problem for you, then you should probably just file for D now.
just ignores the fact of her Other Men, and the high likelihood that it is Someone Else for whom she got this done. At BEST, I think she's trying to manipulate AFW.
I do agree with you on the "he just needs to file" part though.
AFW has said that her getting counseling if they are to reconcile IS one of his main boundaries. And he's TRYING to enforce that.
That was part of our agreement. I have drafted an email and would like some feedback before I send it. Here it is:
I looked up the policy on Military One Source regarding counseling. Here it is.
Military OneSource has the technology, the procedural infrastructure, and the highly trained staff to ensure that each user is treated confidentially and with respect regardless of rank. However, there are exceptions. Military OneSource consultants have a duty to report family maltreatment (spouse, child, elder abuse), threats of harm to self or others, substance abuse, and illegal activities. These reports are made to the appropriate military and civilian authorities. Since counselors are an extension of Military OneSource, these reporting requirements apply to them as well.
When I had my counseling my counselor told me that nothing got reported to my chain of command. I'm sure if you were using drugs, had murdered someone, or something to that extreme, then yes they would report it.
I have lived up to my end of the bargain. I have taken off OW from facebook. I have taken you out on a date and would like to take you out on more but it appears like you don't want to live up to your end. All I hear from you are comments that indicate otherwise. "I've applied for multiple guard jobs, I want to get my name off the mortgage, I'm not going to pay child support anymore, I should have stayed until daughter turned 18, etc." All these things indicate to me that you are not interested in saving our marriage.
While you've admitted your affair, you seem to be leaving everything up to me to fix. On top of that, while I'm not allowed to have a female friend on Facebook, you have not only friended a single guy, you've been over to his house multiple times and you spent New Year's Eve with him at your apartment. You say you're not interested in him but after everything that's happened do you think that's fair? I don't.
So, either you want to work on us or you don't. I still want you to go to counseling(I'm not asking you to do anything that I haven't done)--that was part of our agreement. If nothing else, it seems like you are still very angry when things don't go your way. If you want to work on our marriage, I need you to do your part.
M-41 ex-W-40 Together--17 years SS-20 D-14 Bomb--2 Feb 09 WAW--6 Feb 09 Officially divorced on 2 Jun 2010!!! ex-W has a boyfriend 8 Jun 2010!!! Off we go into the wild blue yonder!!!!
