My WAW caught at an early stage (I hope)

[Steve McQueen]

So, when I picture Coach's boundary-setting conversation, I can see it going either of two ways

first off, do not try picturing the scenerio in your head. that is all it is, a scenerio in you head. dont expect just do it.

secondly,

"Wife, I understand you are not happy. I have decided that I will not share you with another man. If you contact another man for the purposes of a relationship, I will pack your belongings put them in the garage and expect you to move out in 2 weeks."

SAY IT AND MEAN IT.

To add to what Coach said, if your wife gets involved in an affair your entire situation will spiral out of control. This board is filled with men whose wives are in affairs. Read some of them. It will scare you. So, do whatever you can to "avert" the possibility. It is easier to deal with her whackiness than to deal with her whackiness and the fact she is sleeping with someone else.

My wife hit that "magic age" and needed to find herself. The horoscopes, "new age" and eastern religons, (told me there was a spirit of a monk which was guiding her through life), odd ball friends, one day she'd act like she was 18 the next she would be normal, chanting on the sofa at 2am in the morning. I could go on there was some really bizarre behavior. But to sum it up,

My daughters nickname for her is "weird."

Then came the need to find herself sexually. And the anger, and the continued weirdness. I often taught my story was so-far fetched it could not be true. But, honestly, it wasnt all that unique.

My advice to you:

Confidence, Decisiveness, Self-Respect.

[Ready2Change]

Please say to her exactly what Coach told you to say verbatum, practice it for 1 hour until you know it, state it to her, and then get ready for all hell to be rained upon you. But in the end she will give you a little bit of what you have lost and that is respect, and since women tie their love to their feelings of respect, it is by far the most important thing you can do to save your M right NOW.

Burt

Beautifully said.

[sandi2]

1. W could say "well I'm not getting my emotional needs met in this marriage anyway, so I don't care" (background: she said that if it weren't for S4 she would have moved out)

2. W could get mad at me. I would handle this calmly and respectfully, firmly outlining the boundaries. This seems like it would sabotage my efforts to build a positive emotional balance.

When you set boundaries, you cannot worry about how your W may respond. Your main goal is to stand up to her and claim respect. Your W must respect you before she can love you. If you are afraid that she will leave you....or that she'll get mad, then you are going to appear as weak, clingy, needy, etc. That is very unattractive to a woman.

What were you like when she fell in love with you? Can you be that man again?

[patpat]

narwhal

Just read ur sitch. Everyone is right. You have to get over the fear of setting a firm boundary. And just do it.

My W is in an A. The suckubus of love lost has been draining me physically and emotionally. And, at this point, I am playing the waiting game.

I finally set a boundary. I used a combo boundary by piecing Coach's and Sandi2's boundary advice together.

W was ready to bail. Divorce, ILYBINILWY, moved out, never stops by, no contact by her, withdrawn and the list goes on. I was afraid that a boundary would, as you have stated, push her away or she just would not care.

I did not know. I was afraid of both scenarios. But, as so many have stated, she was already gone, and at the point of my boundary, not looking like she was wanting to come back or even give R a thought.

Since boundary. W got mad. Argued. I could see the pain in her eyes. But now, weeks later, her phone calls, and polite texts have increased. She no longer talks about divorce. She has told me that she loves me and she has stopped by on occasion. We are nowhere close to being where I would like us to be, however there has been positive baby steps in the direction of IMO, W wanting to return (she hasn't said this), and slowly coming around. She has mentioned MC & IC. Getting back into church, and told me that our home would be nicer for her if she could feel less pressure when she is there. Not much, but a vast improvement from where I was at.

If your W goes to the next unimaginable, yet predictable place, I can't even begin to decribe the pain you will suffer.

I(prior to X-mas eve) would have gladly traded places with you, but with no boundary, you are asking for a bad sitch to get worse. I fought this for 2 months.

Ever hear the statement: "Good judgment comes from experience, and a lotta that comes from bad judgment".

narwhal, everyone hears is suffering in some unique way. All sitchs are different to some degree, but all hurt the same. All are filled with a variety of pain(s). All here have tried it our own way, failing miserably. Thru a series of trial and error, all have found what works more than not. The pros here have stayed around just for people like you and I. They are our angels. Listen to them.

Listen. Think. If what you are doing now is not working, than 180 it. Get your respect back. Get behind the driver seat, and watch for the positive to come.

Have you set up your goals for want you hope to accomplish. Make them clear, use Coach's boundary- word for word. Wait and watch.

You may be suprised.

I hope this helps. God Bless and I will pray for you...

[tryingtilDorR]

The thing that alarmed me the most was:

But, she says that she meets other men through her school, and she will be tempted to have an affair, since her emotional needs are not being met through our marriage.

I believe she has been experimenting with an EA - she probably doesn't know yet that she is 'hooked' on someone else but the strong idea of someone else she already knows is pulling at her (if I had to guess). If it is just the 'idea' of someone else that would explain her activities on the dating sites as well - she is trying to confirm what she is feeling about needing an OM.

I am not trying to scare you unneccessarily, but she is so incredibly vulnerable given the situation you describe (sounds just like me and my W 2 years ago when my W was 42 incidentally). The good news here is that she is telling you all this, hopefully before it is too late.

Move quickly. Assume she already is having an EA (emotional affair).

I found this site about 6-8 months after my wife got involved in an EA, and about 3 months after I knew about it for sure, and I would have loved to have found it earlier, but I was too consumed (withdrawn to use your word) to be concerned about my M - it was the last thing I thought I could have taken away from me but like so many others here I learned the lesson the hard way (and am still learning).

Stand up and tell her what is NOT acceptable to you, and assume she is already having an EA (even if she really isn't - assume she is) and that you need to stop it.

[narwhal]

Thanks everyone, especially patpat and trying. I had been putting off the boundary-setting talk until after Christmas, and finally did it last night.

I had her e-mail searched, and found one exchange in response to a Craigslist posting, and one personals ad linked to her e-mail.

Me: I've been given information that you posted a personals ad, and responded to another person's personals ad.

W: I didn't do that.

Me: Hands her the printout.

W: (recognizes it immediately) Yes, I did that. That was at my lowest point. It was kind of a cry for help (later she said "I'm actually glad you found that"). I told you that this was likely.

Me: O.K., but it means I have to decide how I'm going to deal with it. I've decided that if you contact any man with the purpose of having a relationship, I'm going to pack up all your things in boxes in the basement, and expect you to move out within two weeks.

W: That's a completely appropriate response. I don't want to do that. Like I said, this was my lowest low point. This e-mail is as far as it went.

...

Later: she says the personals ad is one she placed several months ago for her best friend, whom she has been trying to find a boyfriend for, and who was supposed to come visit (the visit never happened). This is somewhat plausible, as it does list the location as Chicago (where her friend lives) and uses a pet name for her friend as the username.

So, I'm trying to believe little that I hear, and only half of what I see, but if what she admits to is one step less than what's actually happened, that means she chatted with or met this guy once or twice. Given the lack of any anger or defensiveness in her response, I am hopeful that little damage has been done.


So then we had a very good discussion. She got mad (a big plus from total emotional shut-down). W: "I feel like years went by when I tried to get you to do the things that needed to be done, and you'd did nothing, and then I go away on vacation and you paint the f*cking bathroom ORANGE! I hate orange! The f*cking BOXES needed to be unpacked!" (She was also laughing at this as she finished it).

She said that she felt like she was stuck emotionally, needed to get to the place where she could believe that happiness with me was possible. Needs to talk to her IC. (Later, she said maybe what she really needs is a few good cries to get unstuck.)

She said she's willing to work on couples counseling after she talks with her own therapist (scheduled for Jan 11th). Though in the context of this discussion, I'm considering that a coerced statement, not a freely chosen one.

She asked "So what do we need to do to make our lives better?" and we talked about that, both as individuals and as a couple.

I admitted that I had been a total idiot, and I was trying not to be an idiot any more. She said she could tell, and it was a nice change.

I suggested that we try to do fun things together, she admitted that there was no harm in that.

All told, I feel pretty good about it. I believe that no actual EA is going on, that the boundary-setting will lessen the chance of any A, and that we made some real progress toward turning the corner.

On the other hand, if I'm being completely stupid, I'm counting on you guys to set me straight.

[tryingtilDorR]

This is great progress I think, but notice how her first reaction was to lie about what she was doing? Remember this - we want to trust them so much but remember that she lied to you with a straight face and will do it again to protect any other secrets she may have. I may be jaded based upon my own sitch, but I remember wanting to trust my W which prevented me from doing what I needed to do at times.

That said, she seems genuinely interested in exploring why she is feeling the way she is and wondering if there is a way to change it. Then again, the 'shock' of getting caught and possibly having to move out might have pushed her here temporarily so keep an eye out as the dust settles. Her emotions can turn on a dime in this situation. Next she may get 'angry' that you were snooping, etc.

Does she confide a lot in certain friends that might support her potential desire to be single and find someone else? Beware of those people - they may get her fired up over what you did and she will lash out.

Can you legally make her move out? I suspect not if you guys own your house togethre. If she figures this out she will realize that you boundary has no teeth, and then exposure could be your next tool in the escalation if she doesn't keep going on the path she started on.

Be wary, but know that you have caught this early it sounds like with a reasonable chance to recover depending upon how she reacts.

[narwhal]

Thanks trying,

Yeah, I definitely did notice that she lied at first. Thanks for the warning - I have to remember that this is not "in the bag" by any means. Still, I'm more hopeful now than I've been for a while.

[narwhal]

Realized that she was lying about the personal ad being for her friend, since marital status and children status don't match the friend.

[Steve McQueen]

Realized that she was lying about the personal ad being for her friend, since marital status and children status don't match the friend.

are you expecting the truth about anything at this stage of the game?