Looking for Advice

[gutwrenching]

UPDATE: I did the easy one first. Very nicely laid down the boundary that OM has to be off her facebook. She didn't like it, but wasn't overtly upset about it. She agreed, told me I could show her how to do it when we got back from going out with the kids today. She still swears up and down there has been no contact, she has no option for contact, because I will got tell OM's W and "that is F___'d up"...she says I should have the courtesy to let him tell his wife if it gets to that point. I didn't bite...I just said I understand why you'd think that way, but that's not where I am at with all this.

I was also honest in that we aren't going to get any trust built with OM still with access to her and vice versa on FB and him posting things like love song quotes and wishing he was somewhere learning how to ski on a day she was skiing. Her reply was she can't influence what her writes and I said yes but we can influence if we see it or not.

We did have a good XMAS and XMAS day until late in the evening when the kids went to bed and she let me know she was upset at me looking at her computer. That's what led to the facebook discussions, she opened that door, so I took advantage of it. Christmas eve was very friendly and odd though she did let me know that she was still mad at me about the computer but was trying to put it aside because of XMAS and the girls.

She slept in the bed with me again and actually fell asleep in my arms which was weird. She did sleep in the bed again last night, but back to the great divide in the bed which is fine.

Today, she is being cordial but is pissed...angry about the facebook.

Oh yes, one more thing, she angrily asked me to stop using the work affair. She said its not like I went down there and had sex with him, it was a short term thing that was just getting started. I let her know the emotional side was probably worse since that was the void I was working on filling and she let him.

[gutwrenching]

I did tell her out of respect for her, I would stop using the word affair with her. At this point, I think she knows it. Even on Xmas day, she told me she didn't deserve the gifts with what she had done...

I have to work on detaching, I have not detached very well on Xmas day.

She also said last night that she thinks we need to start talking more if we are ever really going to get things back. That we have to talk more about what we are thinking/feeling and what is bothering us or making us angry.

What are the expert's thoughts on this...seems to go against most advice and sandis do's and don'ts.

[Greek]

UPDATE: I did the easy one first. Very nicely laid down the boundary that OM has to be off her facebook. She didn't like it, but wasn't overtly upset about it. She agreed, told me I could show her how to do it when we got back from going out with the kids today. She still swears up and down there has been no contact, she has no option for contact, because I will got tell OM's W and "that is F___'d up"...she says I should have the courtesy to let him tell his wife if it gets to that point. I didn't bite...I just said I understand why you'd think that way, but that's not where I am at with all this.

Bravo

I was also honest in that we aren't going to get any trust built with OM still with access to her and vice versa on FB and him posting things like love song quotes and wishing he was somewhere learning how to ski on a day she was skiing. Her reply was she can't influence what her writes and I said yes but we can influence if we see it or not.

Bravo x 2!

Oh yes, one more thing, she angrily asked me to stop using the work affair. She said its not like I went down there and had sex with him, it was a short term thing that was just getting started. I let her know the emotional side was probably worse since that was the void I was working on filling and she let him.

Bravo x 3!

Cheers!
Greek

[Dane]

Wow, I am totally impressed. You are strong, confident and did the things I need to do.
Awesome job.
Good luck with the future.

[sandi2]

She also said last night that she thinks we need to start talking more if we are ever really going to get things back. That we have to talk more about what we are thinking/feeling and what is bothering us or making us angry.

I tend to be suspicious of people who have been caught in their EA and then start saying what all needs to be done "if" they are going to get things back. It takes such a short time for the chemical induced brain to get fogged up and even if she had good intentions, she'll start craving to have her drug fix.

The main thing that sticks out in my mind is that she didn't show remorse. Even though she "admitted" that she had been the naughty one and when you gave her her present, she said she didn't deserve it. But there is a big difference in admitting that you know you shouldn't have done something....and being truly sorry for it. That is why I think she may try to go deeper with her EA and cover it up more. She underestimated you the first time around, so the next time....she'll make sure you don't uncover anything.

So, back to what you asked about her saying the two of you needed to talk more about the things that bother you.....I would suggest that you tell her that what it will take to get things back on track again is for her to be willing to have a transparency plan. That is where she is willing to have no cell phones, emails, etc., that you do not have access to at any time. Of course, we know that if she wants to continue the EA that she'll go buy a prepaid cell phone and she'll open a private email account.

What did you say to her when she made that statement? I would wait for her to open up to you, if she wants to talk about what bothers her. If it is something that you can validate, then do so.....but do not take a load of blame when it is not your fault. Do not be her doormat. You can look her in the eyes and listen to her and you can nod your head and say, "I understand how you must have felt that way". You don't have to agree with her and you don't have to apologize if you do not believe you have done something wrong. Do you see what I'm saying? She has been caught in an EA and she already has you promising to stop calling it an affair. So, I'm thinking she is going to have you eating out of her hand if you aren't very careful.....b/c you are wanting this to work so badly and you'll be too eager if you don't watch yourself. It is when you are too eager that you will get walked on. She needs to "show" you something that will prove to your heart that she wants to make the M work.

When she expresses her sorrow in what she has done, that will be your first clue that she's serious about wanting to work with you. However, she will still have to go through the withdrawal stages from OM.

Continue to apply the Do's & Don'ts b/c you are not out of the woods by a long shot.

[gutwrenching]

Thanks as usual to all.
I've got to admit, the drawing boundaries not only helps me keep my gnads but actually seems to help with things. About 15 minutes after re-iterating the facebook had to stop, she came back to me and got the kinds busy with something and said we had to talk. I don't remember the most of it, but obviously she was trying to get me to change my stance on FB and using the "it doesn't matter to me at all, I'll take facebook off my computer" approach. I didn't budge. Then she got a little more pissed and said I didn't hold all the cards, she still had some power, and she was tempted to leave the house and tell her boss what she did and if she got fired, so be it. I said nothing, just listened. I don't believe a word of it to be honest and if that is what she wants to do, I know enough from you all to just get out of her way.
She thinks I'm being childish and she swears she is being open with me. Ok. She is blocking him on facebook now "so that we can get this behind us and have a decent evening" since we had a pretty tense day as she fumed over this (I could tell) and kept telling me how meaningless it was and how petty I was.

Realize I am not out of the woods by a long shot. I realize that right now, she doesn't believe this can work out and she doesn't believe I can make her happy. But for whatever reason(s) she is still around, still showing effort every once in a while, and has not filed or taken the next step despite my ability to piss her off every few days. Also she is showing me respect in front of the kids and she is being the best mother I've seen in the last 2 months. So for the kids, these are all good things.

Please keep the advice flowing, it is invaluable.

Yes I am still too hopeful. I am trying and I am more accepting than I ever have been of the possibility that this won't work out...I actually let myself start thinking about how/what I would do things if not married to her next summer...that is a step in the right direction, but need more. I need the blunt advice.

Also, the last two conversations about us, the facebook, and what she is feeling, she initiated not the other way around.

Finally, she asked me if she could send him a note on facebook explaining what she was doing and why. I thought quickly, not sure the right answer, but said yes. My rationale was two-fold...I know she can contact him no problem from work e-mail and if I say no, all I do is encourage that. Second, I want him to run to the hills. I don't mind if she says her screwed up H thinks they are using FB to communicate covertly and is still threatening to tell OM's wife...figured good at this point to potentially re-emphasize this point to OM who is OBVIOUSLY trying to covertly let W know he is thinking about her.

[gutwrenching]

She also said last night that she thinks we need to start talking more if we are ever really going to get things back. That we have to talk more about what we are thinking/feeling and what is bothering us or making us angry.

What did you say to her when she made that statement? I would wait for her to open up to you, if she wants to talk about what bothers her. If it is something that you can validate, then do so.....but do not take a load of blame when it is not your fault. Do not be her doormat. You can look her in the eyes and listen to her and you can nod your head and say, "I understand how you must have felt that way". You don't have to agree with her and you don't have to apologize if you do not believe you have done something wrong. Do you see what I'm saying? She has been caught in an EA and she already has you promising to stop calling it an affair. So, I'm thinking she is going to have you eating out of her hand if you aren't very careful.....b/c you are wanting this to work so badly and you'll be too eager if you don't watch yourself. It is when you are too eager that you will get walked on. She needs to "show" you something that will prove to your heart that she wants to make the M work. When she expresses her sorrow in what she has done, that will be your first clue that she's serious about wanting to work with you. However, she will still have to go through the withdrawal stages from OM.

I don't remember exactly what I said about talking more, I probably wasn't the best on that one. But can heed your advice from here on out. I can also re-nig on the not using the affair word, can conveniently forget and use EA since that is the only thing I can prove and what she has admitted too.
Copy on sorrow. She hasn't expressed true sorrow that I've seen yet. Understand withdrawl...don't think we've hit that yet...maybe a little, but not much...I've been on the watch for clues of that.
I will not be her doormat. I did that gig too much recently and have made too much progress and feels too good (the progress) to lose that. And I've seen results. For example, after very sternly telling her I would not have her treat mean so awful in front of the kids, it stopped, it stopped the next day.

Not out of the woods, I don't believe I'm getting much if any effort at this point. But she is claiming that she is going to try to make this work and she has to stop with OM because there is no way not too...she feels trapped...but obviously even she knows not completely trapped because she could leave.

[sandi2]

Finally, she asked me if she could send him a note on facebook explaining what she was doing and why.

She was going to explain to him on FB......where everyone could see what she said? Oh well, shows you where her mind is.

[Coach]

The only note should be that she will no longer have contact with him. You should be on of the recipients.

Stop backsliding on your boundaries makes you look weak.

[gutwrenching]

No, sent him an e-mail on facebook for not everyone to see.
Its all done now.
Back to where we were. Little to no trust either way (as she finally figured out what I had found on her computer and how), her promising no more contact with OM, no true remorse yet (regret yes, admission she did wrong yes, but not remorse yet), her saying I'm still here--haven't left yet--but not sure she can really try because she is tired. Tired of trying for years and afraid of getting hurt again and not believing I can make her happy without help from her and she doesn't have the energy to try to help...bunch of classic WAW symptoms.

Biggest issue is still her getting over OM in my opinion, though she wants me to believe she is over him and I think she wants herself to believe it. She has said a couple of times she is prepared to be alone, she doesn't need im, doesn't need me...I just affirmed that, said I believe that is true and understand why she feels that way.

The biggest thing I can see is she isn't consumed with thinking about him. I can tell from her involvement with the children, we are back to having 2 parents in the house and I can usually tell when she is thinking about him because she loses that focus. It has been somewhat rare the last few days.

No more talk or even hinting at moving out - that was the anger of telling her no more FB with him

Monitoring her is going to be more difficult now, as she figured out the computer tricks, so I'll have to watch for the other signs.

Question: on the phone bill which right now only I have access too...do I offer to open up the access to that? The account is actually in her name, but I have the id and password for the account. So with a phone call, she could get that changed and lock me out...so do I show some good faith and offer to keep the phone records open/shared?