Action undertaken today to release negative feelings: I spent some time today exploring my negative feelings. I think I am close to expurgating my anger and hurt.
Action taken today to show real giving: I then called my wife. (A bit of back story: This morning she had a bit of a rage and berated me for about 20 minutes on the phone on the pretext that I had made plans to Christmas shop without her. In fact, I had only made arrangements with SD20 to baby sit in the event we should need to do some shopping. I calmly pointed this out once. But it did no good. I then simply tried to listen and validate. This only seemed to anger her more. Anyway, I called her this afternoon. I told her I was calling for no particullar reason. (I have not done this for over six weeks.) She mentioned said she had not eaten lunch and we chatted for a few minutes. I then texted her and asked her if I could bring her some lunch. She agreed. This was an exercise in real giving. When things were "normal" in our relationsip, I would do these types of things all the time. I have always been a very attentive and considerate husband.Sometimes, I think she just didn't see me.) This time it was different though. This time, I simply did it without any expectations. She thanked me and I went about my day. The poor thing looked like she is suffering so much. God! I just wanted to hold her. But I held my expectations and wants back in an effort to practice some true giving.
Last night, my wife and I started out being friendly. But, as the night went on, I noticed she grew more and more angry. She tried to pick a couple of fights but I refused to take the bait.
At bed time, I asked her, "You seem a bit standoffish. Do you want to talk?" Immediate hostility. She reiterated she wanted to sell the house and seperate. She has been pressuring me to sign a listing agreement for several days. I have refused and said I would consider it after the first of the year. Financially, it is probobly a good move if(and this is a big if) we can get a good price on our home. I sought out the aspects of this conversation that we could agree on, validated her feelings and remained centered. I do not oppose this idea, but I do not feel like now is the right time for me to make that decision and won't be bullied into it.
I brought up the topic of her depression. She denied being depressed. This is not a big shock. (Two days ago she discussed checking herself in to a mental health facility in all seriousness. But she's not depressed? She has had no interest in Christmas. She has lost touch with her family. She goes into rages. But she is not depressed.) I calmly said, my responsibility is to listen and help you any way that I can cope with these demons. But, I need to be clear, it is your responsibility to address your depression and I will not enable you to avoid it any longer. I won't pretend it does not exist even if you do. She accussed me of making judgments about her. My response was that The only judgment that I have ever made about was when I decided that I wanted you to be my wife. That judgment, that you were worthy to be my spouse(she often feels inadequate and insecure), was true then and it remains true today. You have done some things that I do not like, however, I view your actions as seperate from you.' She did not respond. I am not saying our R does not have problems, at all.Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut, but I feel I have allowed her to blame her emotional issues on our relationship too long. I feel I must speak the truth.
I had hopes she would cool the S talk, but apparently she remains committed to that course of action right now. Is she still coming to terms with the impact of her A, still in withdrawal, depressed, all of the above? Any thoughts?
I can't speak for your W but having been depressed to what was diagnosed as a clinical state along with having anxiety that eventually manifested to a clinical panic disorder I can offer you the following from my own experience...
Being depressed and filled with anxiety is a very scary place to be. I felt so disconnected from myself, my surroundings and the people in my life that even the smallest tasks (walking the dog, getting the mail, going to the market) became monumental to me.
I think deep down I knew something was so very, very wrong but as most depressed people do I began coping with these feelings in a *very* unhealthy way. If I wasn't "hiding" I was lashing out. During that time I thought I was doing a bang up job hiding it from everybody. I wasn't.
Being depressed, at least for me, was an odd combination of wanting to hide forever and/or run away as far as I could. But you can't run from yourself.
I became physically ill, lost so much weight I was under the 100 pound mark, my hair started falling out in clumps and I lived each day feeling like I was on the verge of having a heart attack.
While it is was my responsibility to take care of me when somebody is in that state it is very hard to (A) admit it and (B) do anything about it as every minute of every day becomes a struggle.
My mom called me one day and I was in such a state I could not even breathe and honestly I can't even remember what I said to her. An hour later she knocked on my door, told me she didn't care if I was angry with her for the rest of my life and she gave me two options. Option 1 was allow her to take me to my dr. at once or option 2 was we were going to the hospital. She was loving but firm and in a way I was relieved because I was exhausted from putting up a front. I think she expected resistance from me but she didn't get it. I was in such a state I needed somebody to help me out but was too afraid to ask.
My mom took me to my long time primary care dr. who worked like hell to get me an appt. with a psych she has a good working relationship with. This dr. has a 6 month waiting list. That very night he opened up his office for me and that was also the very night my life started changing.
I am not making excuses for your W. I simply wanted to illustrate to you what I went through as a person. Nobody can make an online diagnosis but we can share experiences and I thought perhaps hearing mine might be helpful.
I knew my mom, sister, stepfather, brother in law, friends, aunts/uncles and cousins were concerned about me but I had no idea how frightened they were for me.
When my dr. was calling the psych. she knew well I heard her say to him "this is a broken woman who needs immediate help". And I was broken and *I* did need help.
It still seems to me you're trying to supplicate her, and it reminds me of the old adage, "Never try to kiss a pig; it'll only get you muddy, and annoy the pig."
Really, PDT. You think I am supplicating her? Should I assert a boundry centered on her getting some help for her depression? What do you think I should do?
I only think you can do then if/when she says "I really want us to reconcile, and I'm willing to do what it takes -- what can I do?" That sort of thing. Otherwise you just come across as trying to "fix" her.
I just think it's your overall tone and demeanor toward her. It's one thing to remain civil, and courteous, but your descriptions of your interactions just seem so . . . so . . . supplicating. That's the only word I can think of.
Do you think you are going to fix this in a week or two? If so you need to rethink YOUR expectations. There is no fixing this. Her actions must speak not her words. Seems to me that you are pursuing her to fix the depression. She will fight you and ask for a separation/D. Stop pursuing!
Really, PDT. You think I am supplicating her? Should I assert a boundry centered on her getting some help for her depression? What do you think I should do?
The boundary is for you if she disrespects you and treats you poorly. You can't set a boundary that requires someone to get some help with their depression, not in your current state, she wants to leave you, if you set a boundary of leaving her if she doesn't get help with her depression, what is the consequence for her not getting help, you leaving her? But she is leaving you, so that doesn't work.
You talk to much relationship talk.
You brought her lunch, I'll be honest, that was a very nice thing to do considering she's treating you poorly but take into account she treats you poorly because you still do nice things for her, in her current state of mind, she looks at you like you're crazy: I treat him badly, I'm leaving him, I had an affair and this guy buys me lunch and talks nicely to me and still wants to be with me, I'm not the crazy one, I think he is and I don't want to be around him anymore.
Thanks Citygirl. I am sorry you suffered so much but it sounds like now you are doing great. I see what you are saying about hiding/lashing out. Generally, she hides it for herself and everyone else and lashs out at me. She is seeing a new age type counselor, but I don't think she is being honest about what is truly going on. Again, it is prefereable for her to blame me, blame our relationship as the source of her problems.
I hope I am not coming accross as saying some variaton if 'Its not me, its you' or, 'the problem with our M is that you are so danm mixed up'. That is not what I am saying. I want to be clear about that. Throughout our four year marriage I have consistently and activley worked on our relatinship issues. We have done sustantial MC and a ton of reading on the side. She has not been the only one working on our relationship. In fact, much of the time, I have been alone in this effort.
It is very hard to admit there is a problem. But in my wifes case, even more so. My wifes mother was/is bipolar and her last husband suicided. She blames the meds. Thus, she is strongly anti-medication. For the most part, I agree with her on that class of drugs but I also think they have a limited role in recovery.
Do you think there is anything I can do to help? I haven't read your sitch, but is there sometheing you would have liked your H to do?
