Looking for Advice

[Deep]

Gads, the woman turning 40 conumdrum again . There's a teeny weeny thingy at the back of my mind at times, praying my W does not EVER "lose it" again when she turns 40 and / or gets post-natal.

Re confiding in women friends. Are you sure, 100% sure, there's nothing there? I did confide in a couple during my sitch, sometimes it's true there's nothing more than friendship and concern and support there. Sometimes, things could spin out of control.

[sandi2]

If she's leaving the phone out, chances are pretty good that there is nothing on it. It's when they hide it that you gotta wonder. I think if you check it in front of her, it's .... something... not sure of the word I want here.... I guess degrading... and for both of you. Check it in a way that preserves your dignity and doesn't poke at her, too.

Do not talk to the mutual female friend about this. First of all, it is not wise for you to lean on a female at this time. I believe it is inappropriate. Second of all, this will be seen by your W as you gathering allies.

I agree 100%.

[sandi2]

We live an extremely busy life, people we work with don't know how we pull it off, I wonder at times myself, plus Christmas...

This is the largest problem you have in your R and until you find a way to "make" time to feed the MR.....it will not survive. I'm telling you that your family has to come first over work, friends, school activities, etc. Your W and your R with her is in crises and therefore you need to cut something out or there will be more breakdowns in your R. Extremely busy lives are killing marriages! The amount of time for just the two of you is so important. I hope this has been a wake-up call about that.

***********************

When you ask "was it just to drop the OM"...not sure what else you are saying I need to do.

I was confused about the way you seemed unsure about setting the boundaries, but you did fine with it. She knows where you stand and what you can do if she does not respect the line drawn. Just don't expect much from her right now...b/c she is very angry at you. She will resent you for quite some time, so gear up.

I do understand and fear they will just go deeper undercover.

It is b/c this A with OM is like a drug addiction for her. She will crave for OM's attention and the ego food he gave her. Going cold turkey is the only way she will beat it. You need to think of her as a person trying to overcome her addiction. If she sees him at work daily, that is going to be very tough and very tempting for her. Could she be moved to a different area at work?

Some women do beat it.....and some don't. I was one of the lucky ones.....but I went deeper undercover at first...and I think from what I've read.....most do. Even if OM is no longer interested, some WAW's go looking for another man for her "fix" for her addiction. It's sad......and I understand it......but, I hate it.

I've been trying to figure out what will be the warning signs and how I can keep tabs on that

She will be more cleaver the second time around (if she does go deeper underground.)As for knowing the signs.....I don't have enough information yet to really know how to size her up (so to speak). She may be a good actress and try to act as if everything is okay...just to throw you off track. OTOH, she will probably be very withdrawn from you, and I think that is to be expected if you have busted her. For right now, she feels resentment instead of remose. That will be the deciding factor, IMHO. If she's remorseful, then she can come around and start to heal and finally get to the place to start working at the R with you. But as long a she holds on to her resentment toward you, then she won't be able to heal and the MR will not go forward in a healthy way.

If you can get software to track her computer activity, that would be one way you could check to see how she's doing. If you do not think you can handle reading about it or think you do better not knowing....then so be itI thik she and OM will cool their heels for a while, but then try again. Do not tell her you are checking up on her. Do not reveal how much you know or how you found out. Do not accuse her if you don't have solid proof.

Try to get through this week without any more crises. I'll try to answer you other questions, but I have to go for now.

[d1adsl5a]

Gut,

By no means am I trying to lead you down the path of calling it quits. Hope can be good, Hope can be your enemy. In my case, Hope was my enemy. It wasn't until she stepped across my boundary that I realised I can't do it anymore. She knocked the hope out of me. Look, I saw the texts in month two to the other man(exboyfriend from 20 years ago)--I love you, Loved you for 20 years. I got the it is just a friend, going through a tough time...Right and do I have idiot written across my forehead.

I got the whole superdad thing. I got you have become everything I wanted, but too little too late. She made a decision not to fight for the marriage or our family. She will have to live with the guilt, not me.

You are early on in the process. It is like a death. You have to go through all the stages. You can't skip them. Clearly, you can see I am in the anger stage. Angry that she was a coward for not speaking up years ago to tell me she was unhappy. That is about the only thing she said I was right on.

But everyone chiming in is right. Someone has to be the adult. That is you. That is why you are here. None of us are truly past it yet, otherwise we still wouldn't be here. I read the books, did the 180's, GAL. I watched my wife by her new Cougar wardrobe, go out till 3am drinking..She bascially turned my life into a bad "B" movie.

Right now all you can see is your own pain and anguish. You may not think so, but that will subside one day. And then you will know what your path will be for you and your kids. I do hope it works out. But you also need to be working on yourself, your finances, your kids in case it doesn't

Good Luck on your new Journey. It is one you never wanted or dreamed of, however, it was you now have to take as do your kids.

Be strong.

[gutwrenching]

ALL - thanks again. It really amazes me how much you all care about a stranger on a computer. I hope to be able to repay others someday.
Let me update and answer questions:
1) I did end confiding with female co-worker and I told W tonight. Tweaked Greeks words a little (thank you, awesome, the school teacher bit worked too, was the only way to get her to actually listen). After initially telling me she didn't care and it didn't bother her, she came back about 2 minutes later, even more pissed and told me the only thing that bothered her was that I told co-worker about EA and that I had ruined W's credibility with that person if they ever had to work together. Yes, I looked at W and said "I ruined your credibility??" and she got even more pissed and said no I did, but you shouldn't have told her. I held firm, did not apologize. You all have got me going stronger. 48 hours ago, I would have apologized.

2) This was after W came home at 8:30PM this evening. The kids and I had a WONDERFUL night. I have always had a bond with the younger D but no the older one. That is starting to change, I saw it tonight. I think the W saw it too. She of course claimed again that I was trying to monopolize the kids. I stopped her. I said oh no I'm not. I am not going to put them in the middle of this. I am enjoying my time with them and what they give me, but they love you and they need you too. I will not stop that. And I also told her that she needed to immediately stop acting so bitchy to me around them, it was disrespectful. I told her this is between us, not them, they don't need to see how pissed you are at me. Her reply to that was she walks in the house and is instantly mad. This isn't her home anymore. She isn't comfortable here any more. But she is stuck. I didn't think it would be right for me to say move out. I also don't think it'll be healthy. My girls do need their mother (the mother of the past, not the current one) and I also fear if she moves out, the EA will certainly kick in high gear. I don't think she'll move out because of her reputation...if we aren't living together, people will ask why, and she can't handle her reputation at work being trashed.
[quote]Going cold turkey is the only way she will beat it. You need to think of her as a person trying to overcome her addiction. If she sees him at work daily, that is going to be very tough and very tempting for her. Could she be moved to a different area at work?/quote]

She claims she is going cold turkey, those were the exact words she used after she told me they had talked for 45 mins and he wanted nothing to do with being in the middle of us and she didn't want to hurt him because he was a special friend. She told me to check the phone records. I did today, it was 51 minutes. They do not see each other at work. They are in different states, heck different time zones. They met this summer at what I'll call a work related project (I don't want to give too many details, situation is unique, never know when someone could figure out who we were) that they were on for about 3 months. So the only time she sees him is pictures. She has them on the computer (from the project) and he has about 8 pics of himself up on facebook.
[quote]She may be a good actress and try to act as if everything is okay...just to throw you off track. OTOH, she will probably be very withdrawn from you, and I think that is to be expected if you have busted her. For right now, she feels resentment instead of remose. That will be the deciding factor, IMHO. If she's remorseful, then she can come around and start to heal and finally get to the place to start working at the R with you. But as long a she holds on to her resentment toward you, then she won't be able to heal and the MR will not go forward in a healthy way./quote]
She has used the actress routine in the past prior to setting boundaries and I fell for it. So I am on the lookout this time. However, resentment is an understatement right now. There is no remorse. Her blood pressure rises at the sight of me. I realize this could take a while, its only been about 60 hours since I confronted her and set boundaries and only 24 hours since I took the advice and drove the boundary home, the one that really pissed her off (telling her I would tell OM's W). There is no healing right now. She is sleeping in a different room. She is ignoring our kids. She is mad at the world. Today she even posted on facebook that she couldn't focus on work today even though it was 1030, maybe it was because she hadn't finished her coffee (that I made her like I do every morning).

She went off to the store to get a xmas gift and I had to stop her because we had other gifts up in the air like for the nanny. I offered to wrap the present for the nanny to which she replied "I don't need you to do anything for me." nice. I just calmly said, I got that trust me. I'm not doing it for you, I'd do cause it needs to get done before tomorrow morning.
[quote]The amount of time for just the two of you is so important. I hope this has been a wake-up call about that./quote]

It 100% absolutely has. When I was in the chasing, whining stage, I tried over and over to suggest we just take some time together that this is where we had failed. I offered to take an easier job. This was before I realize she was a WAW and having an EA. If I get a chance to do it over, I WILL NOT screw this one up again.

Will go back here in a few and see what I missed and what else needs to be added. Need to wrap those gifts now...and not for the W that exudes so much hatred these days. Oh I can't wait till Christmas morning, its going to be so much fun watching here be pissed as she gets gifts from me and the girls. I had bought most everything while still in a state of denial, so I ain't going back now. I've got the receipts. She can tell me to take them back if she is still acting this childish.

[gutwrenching]

[quote]Do not talk to the mutual female friend about this. First of all, it is not wise for you to lean on a female at this time. I believe it is inappropriate. Second of all, this will be seen by your W as you gathering allies./quote]

Got it...won't go there. Glad I never did.

And if there was any doubt before, it is erased now...she is certainly angrier at me tonight than she was the last 2 nights. Sunday night after the confrontation, she was just sad. She even seriously debated sleeping in our bed and almost did.
Monday she supposedly ends the EA and Mon night, she is mad, but says she will try to be civil because of the girls. She comes home at decent time from work.
Tuesday, whole nother story. She is IRATE, over the top, would probably like to spit in my face. Could it be that she isn't getting her fix to her addiction? Don't know. If I hadn't mentioned it before, I would describe my W as having and addictive personality, so that does worry me. But I also have seen her quit addictions cold turkey in the past...so I don't know. Of course, she wanted to quit those, big difference with this sitch.

QUESTION for my advisors/supporters: what about facebook? I did not discuss facebook in my boundaries. I am watching, via her computer (but not in a degrading way when she is around) and they are no longer posting to each other but they can see each others pages. I'm somewhat inclined to let it go for now and monitor and see what happens and see how often she goes and looks at OM's facebook page. It was one of the first things she did tonight on the computer...I went and looked too...nothing towards her. In fact, OM and OM's W were chit chatting almost flirting back and forth. I cannot tell if she looked Mon night because I had to tweak a couple of settings so I could later monitor the web pages she was visiting.

On me: I am happy to report that I am finally feeling some anger towards her. I've stopped feeling sorry for myself and my situation. Having another great night with the kids helped, her being so selfish and staying at work helped, and being cognizant of her disrespect helped (which I saw in front of the kids), and her getting even more angry helped because I don't deserve the anger, I didn't have the A.

[gutwrenching]

[quote]confiding in women friends. Are you sure, 100% sure, there's nothing there?/quote]

There is nothing there. I feel nothing. Either way I stopped it and told W I was stopping it. Woman friend is married too. That's just not me.

[Deep]

Some nice stuff there GW, nice to see you're gaining some strength and independence, nice to see you getting closer to your kids.

Of course W is angry, you're the cause of all her life's misery, don't you know :P.

What boundaries exactly have you set? (and what consequences?). I hear you about wanting the best for the kids, and I hope it does not get to that point for you, but at SOME point you have to be prepared to tell her to move out if she violates certain OM boundaries. How certain are you about her sincerity and strength about NC and cold turkey? Conventional wisdom will tell you it's probably lies. Right now you'll have to "trust but verify" (to borrow from Puppy) with a transparency plan agreed upon. If her main motivation is not to "hurt OM since he is a special friend", that's not gonna last very long, and is detrimental towards the right mindset anyway. A's can take on a life of their on, they don't need to be in constant physical contact.

Facebook? Some on here would call it the devil's work.

Watch the anger as well. I'm not sure it's altogether healthy to look forward that way to your W getting pissed when the presents are opened. You're in this to try and work things out, not to score points right?

[gutwrenching]

Deep - great words.
First of all, the sarcasm didn't come out in the typing. I do NOT at all look forward to Christmas opening gifts. That was pure sarcasm. I think it will be hell. I am not trying to score points and I've debated the gifts to no end, but cannot figure out what to do. Since I had all the ideas and bought almost all the gifts before the major falling out after exposing the EA, I guess I'm just going to press ahead and give them. I have no clue what is the right thing to do. I've gotten past scoring points...I've learned the hard way that doesn't work. I've got receipts and fully anticipate her saying she won't accept some or all of them...especially the nice pair of diamond earrings.

Yes I've heard over and over how somehow every day of our marriage was pure misery caused by me, there were never any good times and never did I do anything right. I am the cause of her misery.

THe boundary I have set is no contact at all else I contact OM's wife. So for Facebook, she has not crossed that boundary yet as neither she nor he have posted anything to each other since the boundary was established and they used to regularly.

I have no idea if my W can go cold turkey. She will be smarter if she goes deeper undercover, she is a very bright woman. I will verify as much as I can, but she has had to have learned from being sloppy before. I think her #1 motivation is him not being hurt, but the #2 motivation is her own reputation and his reputation. she has worked hard in her career to get where she is and has an outstanding reputation that means a lot her.

[gutwrenching]

And just in case I needed more proof on how strong the EA was, I'm currently viewing her itunes from my computer...new set of music in the last couple of months, mostly country (not the norm for her) and the message of all the songs are obvious...the EA was strong. Gosh I hope she actually does go cold turkey and quits, but that is outside my control and I know she isn't there yet...she doesn't really want to call it quits. Got to hope the boundaries work