My first post, after lurking for a few days. This seems like a really supportive community, and I'm looking forward to some wisdom and support in this situation.
The Bomb A couple of weeks ago, W was sending strong negative vibes at me. That evening in bed I asked her if she was mad at me. She said no. I asked if she was upset with me. She said yes. W: "It has to do with turning 42, and realizing that I'll probably never have any more babies. It just hasn't seemed right. We're just so different."
Filling in W's views from a couple of other conversations during the following week: - I suggested counseling. She's not willing to commit to working on the marriage, needs to "figure out what she wants" first. (Background: she suggested counseling 2 years ago; I refused.) - If it weren't for S4, she would have moved out. - Something irrevocable has happened: during the last couple of years, while she was "waiting for [me] to step up," her chance to have another baby has passed. (BTW, for ~2 years, she pretty much shut me out sexually - maybe 8 times in 2 years. Recent year not quite so dry.) - Last summer she "gave up" on our relationship. - Stay together as a family for the sake of S4. She thinks we're functioning reasonably well, which is a big change from recent past. - Feels like she doesn't "have a partner" in me. - Almost all the specific complaints have to do with housework. - She has so much resentment and frustration toward me that the idea of any kind of emotional involvement is just out of the question for her right now. - She's fine with no emotional connection to me. She has the rest of her life going on. But, she says that she meets other men through her school, and she will be tempted to have an affair, since her emotional needs are not being met through our marriage. And "I don't want to do that to you or S4". (Shocking as this is, I think it's good that she's telling me this.) - I'm too critical. Working on things with me is no fun; I don't encourage her. - She "feels like she has tons of energy," while I "just sit there." (But... she often complains of being tired.) - She thinks I'm perfectly happy being withdrawn from the world, looking at stuff online. (I told her I'm not at all happy). - ILYBINILWY - She was looking at "men seeking women" personals ads online, and seems to have exchanged a single e-mail with each of two other men. No OM yet, but may be headed that way? - She's stopped wearing her wedding ring
My Take On the Situation: - Yes, I've been pretty withdrawn. After she stopped wanting to have sex, I pretty much gave up on that. In recent months the drought of sex has broken some, but not a lot. And after sex she gets dressed and goes downstairs, rather than cuddling and talking. - I admit that I haven't been doing what I should around the house - We haven't been doing fun things lately. - I've been hung up on financial issues. She spends money irresponsibly - paying off her credit card bill uses up half our disposable income each month. (She admits she's been irresponsible about money.)
Housework: - Most of her specific complaints have to do with the house - She points out that she spends much more of her day in the house than I do. (I work full time; she is in school part time and does some volunteer work.) - In the past, I've looked at housework through the following lenses: -- strict separation: I will do my assigned tasks to the extent that you do yours -- looking to her behavior to understand what she wants: I see that she is leaving her papers spread out all over the living room floor, and dirty clothing piled up, so I decide that this is O.K. with her, and adopt a comparable level of (un)cleanliness. She never sees it that way. - She admits sometimes to others that she's "almost as much of a slob as he is." So is this a canard?
My 180s: - First off, I'm happy to have the problem out in the open. I didn't know how to deal with the situation - she was being totally withdrawn. - In some ways, I'm happy. I think about W a lot. While I'm definitely worried, it's a little bit like new love, to be thinking of her much of the time. (Also reduces my effectiveness at work....) - Working out, losing weight (had started this already) - Reading lots of relationship books. Learning that the WAW pattern is what's going on here - Reading Love Languages, I realize that her native love language may be "Acts of Service" - like cleaning up. So I'm now cleaning up around the house, fixing things, finishing various small projects, as an act of love. It's nice when she appreciates the clean kitchen, but I'm trying to distance myself from depending on her response as motivation. - Trying to have good talks with her - Not being uptight about money. Buying myself books I want (including a slew of relationship books, but also art books), looking to buy a new car. I figure we'll pay for it somehow, and I won't be resentful the way I have been, where I carefully try to save up money to buy things, but then her CC bill eats it all up.
Current Sich: - She "doesn't welcome" any physical intimacy. Submits, usually without protest, to goodnight kiss, goodbye kiss, occasional hug. Once she came and kissed me goodbye (we were with other people then - what does that mean?) - She says she appreciates the work I'm doing around the house - She mentioned once that she was thinking of moving into the guest bedroom downstairs, but so far she's still sharing the bed with me - Last night had a nice talk about her Mom's situation - Generally pleasant interactions about day-to-day things - I'm not pressing the R talk
Random Paranoid Thoughts:
W has been printing out horoscopes (Rob Breszny) and posting them by her computer. Last week's said that in 2010 "you should share your life energy primarily with people and situations that make your soul sing and tingle and swing." Right now, that doesn't mean me!
She's made an appointment to see her own therapist to "figure out what she wants." What if the therapist tells her to get out?
Me:45 W:42 T:11 M:9 S:4 ILYBINILWY:12/6/09 W agrees to MC: 2/12/10 my thread
I can't offer you much advice because I'm new to this too, but at least you seemed to have caught it before she did see OM. You are doing the right thing coming here and reading books to try to change things in yourself. Keep it up and show her the man you can be.
Me:49 W: 41 Kids=D14/D14/S10 Married: 15 Together: 16 Bomb: 08/26/09 Currently: separated but in the different houses.
O.K., so about 10 days ago W was browsing the "men seeking women" classifieds, and I think she sent e-mails to two people. Our situation is a little better now than it was then.
This evening she went out, to work out at the YMCA and run some errands. I poked around on her computer, and found an e-mail (from 10 days ago) to someone from the classifieds, saying her marriage has fizzled, describing herself as "ready to connect."
So I'm tearing myself up inside, convinced that she's gone to meet this guy somewhere.
At 10:00 she comes home, and it seems pretty clear that she went to the Y, and then to J.C. Penney to get some clothes for her mom.
Am I totally paranoid?
Me:45 W:42 T:11 M:9 S:4 ILYBINILWY:12/6/09 W agrees to MC: 2/12/10 my thread
Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean that your wife isn't out there cheating. This is exactly how my W started out: posting messages on chat boards, enlisting total strangers on a pen-pal site and telling them that our marriage was "on-the-rocks". She was out there looking. At that time, she hadn't found what she was looking for (that came a few months later at a class reunion). In your case, now is the time to start DBing in earnest. Do it before she finds her sole-mate and you are trying to keep your marriage together as an also-ran.
Me40 WAW37 M18 T20 S18,14 D13 EA Bomb 6/08 Sep 11/20/08 Ret 08/09 Sep/Filed 11/09
This evening she went out, to work out at the YMCA and run some errands. I poked around on her computer, and found an e-mail (from 10 days ago) to someone from the classifieds, saying her marriage has fizzled, describing herself as "ready to connect."
Strong boundary needs to be in place with serious consequences.
"Wife, I understand you are not happy. I have decided that I will not share you with another man. If you contact another man for the purposes of a relationship, I will pack your belongings put them in the garage and expect you to move out in 2 weeks."
If she gets in a relationship she will totally be in a fog that will thwart any of your efforts. It is imperative you take this stand. It's about her behavior that is unacceptable to you. So it's not a ultimatum it's a choice she can make. Do you understand this?
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Thanks Coach and dburt. I will set strong boundaries.
But help me out here - I'm having trouble seeing how best to do this given where we are right now:
- She's in a numb, shut-down, withdrawn state emotionally. - My failing has been that I've been too withdrawn - I'm trying to "focus on what works" as M W-D says. Have good times together to build up the emotional love account before pushing too hard on talking about the R.
So, when I picture Coach's boundary-setting conversation, I can see it going either of two ways, neither of which seems good:
1. W could say "well I'm not getting my emotional needs met in this marriage anyway, so I don't care" (background: she said that if it weren't for S4 she would have moved out)
2. W could get mad at me. I would handle this calmly and respectfully, firmly outlining the boundaries. This seems like it would sabotage my efforts to build a positive emotional balance.
So what's the deal? Is it that averting an A is so important that it trumps these other concerns?
Me:45 W:42 T:11 M:9 S:4 ILYBINILWY:12/6/09 W agrees to MC: 2/12/10 my thread
Please say to her exactly what Coach told you to say verbatum, practice it for 1 hour until you know it, state it to her, and then get ready for all hell to be rained upon you. But in the end she will give you a little bit of what you have lost and that is respect, and since women tie their love to their feelings of respect, it is by far the most important thing you can do to save your M right NOW.
