Kettricken thank you for taking the time to post and share your insight.
I very briefly breezed through your previous threads to get a sense of who you are and where you're "coming from." I value and respect your opinion. Although I may not agree with everything you've written, you have given me food for thought.
Kettricken: I think you really need to think hard about this. There is no such thing as 'gaslighting with good intentions'.
I agree with you. My choice of words was not the best. The concept of gas-lighting is to make the other person think they are crazy -- or drive them crazy. This is not my intention.
Kettricken: deliberately crafting and enacting a complex strategy to mislead a partner about your actions and intentions is nothing less than betrayal.
Perhaps it is. This is the current situation: Emotionally she is checked out, physically she has one foot out the door. I am at the brink of throwing in the towel and going WAH. I have never claimed that what I'm doing is the right thing to do. Without going into 30,000 words of detail:
- I'm in a foreign country - With limited resources - Fighting a losing battle - Without backup (friends, family etc)
I'm doing the best I can with what I've got in hand.
Kettricken: It demonstrates complete disrespect for their adult ability and responsibility to make decisions based on facts, even if they are making terrible use of that power.
Ordinarily I would agree wholeheartedly. So what do you do when you're dealing with an adult with zero reasoning? It's littered all over this board: The WAS is beyond logic, reason, understanding and is completely irrational in thought, words and deeds.
Kettricken: If my husband took such actions, even if it brought me out of a "fog" and I was grateful for that, I could never trust him again as an intimate partner. Ever.
I hear you. On the flip-side consider this: You are not a WAW and are voicing your sane, logical and rational feelings. On top of that, is is YOU who is here working on your marriage dealing with a man who views intimacy with guilt. I could be mistaken, but I don't see your H here.
Kettricken: First, it's hard to believe someone's intentions are pure when they have such a vested interest in the situation,
I've never claimed that my intentions were pure. I'm driven purely by self-interest and my own desires. I'm not innocent and will readily admit it.
Kettricken: it wouldn't outweigh the negative drag factor of the Machiavelli act so long as he continued to assert that it was justified.
I'm not asserting that it is justified. I'm driven by my own selfish desire making the best use of the tools I have in hand.
Kettricken: Dissonance theory teaches us ... In my experience, theory and practice usually don't meet with the same results.
Kettricken: the problem with embarking on a program of deliberate obfuscation and manipulation is that the brain knows there's a problem with it. Unless you can convince the brain that there isn't a problem.
Kettricken: Sadly, the answer to the conundrum of "I'm a good person" and "I'm doing something really shifty" is to justify, justify, justify. Yep, I hear you... and that's probably what I'm doing here.
Kettricken: Even more sadly, this justification often takes the form of demeaning or demonizing the target of said shiftiness. Do you want to go there with your wife?
I don't think I have ever demonized my wife. I have emphatically stated time and again that she has her reasons.
Kettricken: Guess I'm just giving you a woman's "Ya THINK???" on the undesirable fallout. My 2 cents.
And for that I am truly grateful. As far as 2 cents... nah, I think that was worth $150. Thanks again Kettricken.
Gno, I know you've said your wife is emotionally distant and youd don't really talk to one another & your support system is far away... what are you planning for Christmas?
As far as my experience goes, things in my marriage are about a thousand times better than I ever thought they could be. Entirely a result of (eventual) non-confrontational, non-blaming bedrock honesty, effort, and compassion on both sides. So I'm heavily biased in favor of non-byzantine solutions.
But you can only work with what you have, I get that. Keep that healthy self-skepticism up, it's a lifesaver.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
As far as my experience goes, things in my marriage are about a thousand times better than I ever thought they could be. Entirely a result of (eventual) non-confrontational, non-blaming bedrock honesty, effort, and compassion on both sides.
I can second that.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
second stage is cut we're now in orbit stabilizers up running perfect starting to collect requested data what will it effect when all is done thinks Major Tom
I know this is update is cryptic... and doesn't give much info. Events have been set in motion. Kettricken's feedback and everyone else who contributed to my request on "combating hate" has been digested.
When I can muster the energy I'll post more on my state of mind and what's going down in Gno-land.
My 2 cents.