It took me a while to learn that limboland might be a temporary place to gather your thoughts, get your bearings, then decide how to proceed, but it is not a place to remain. You know, like closing time for a bar - you don't have to go home but you can't stay here.
This made me LOL. Love the 'closing call' comparison.
Originally Posted By: tryingtilDorR
TDR: "you need to leave if you continue to do what you have been doign with him. I have asked several times"
W: "If you don't like it you can leave"
That is such a crock. You don't have to go anywhere. That is your house.
Originally Posted By: tryingtilDorR
About a half hour later I got the following text messages after I had left the house:
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I think I'll call him today to let him know u r constantly trying to get in his past and to apologize to him for what being friends has caused
I thought this was classic. She always call him a 'friend' and all this turmoil is just because she ahd a 'friend'. I laughed when I read this since it sounds so ridiculous.
It is ridiculous and stupid that she's coming to her "friend's" defense. I wouldn't even respond to those things if I were you.
I would back away from contacting or even referring to OM - you are elevating him in importance when he isn't worth it. Besides, as much as I'm sure you can't standOM, HE is a symptom of the problem, NOT the problem.
Now, at the same time, I am NOT suggesting you back away from your boundary. And if she refuses to stay within that boundary (no contact with OM), YOU have to enforce it. You may not be able to force her to move out, but you sure as he11 can initiate the D proceeding. What's your alternative? She has made it clear she doesn't respect your boundary - she's testing you.
So, if you do not want to jump to the next level and file, tell her you have decided you will not live in a M where she cannot be faithful to you. And that you have decided you should both discuss how you will split up hte property, custody, etc. Make an appointment with a mediator. Just get the ball rolling. Unless you like how you feel, and where you are, right now.
Yes after this flurry I will back off on OM. I realize he is a symptom and have understood it from Day 1, but at the same time I know that without cutting this disease out of our life it is hard to make any progress with her. I have made a lot of changes in the past year to deal with my half of the root cause of our problems but it hadn't made any difference with OM around.
My intent with all this was to cause him some pain and not get W involved, but the first time I saw her after contacting quasi-GF she didn't have her wedding ring on and I got a little sucked in. I wanted to let her know that I found out about the boundary violation regarding her talking to him from her work.
Anyway, I have told her to contact the mediator and schedule an appointment since her schedule is harder to deal with than mine and she said she wanted to move forward with that. She sounds like she will but if not I will.
Later she sent another text:
W: Remember the kids are now my #1 concern so it is best if we both alternately move out
TDR: You are having the affair, sleeping in the other room, and not wearing your rign so you go. Otherwise these details will get figured out in divorce settlement.
ME/XW:47 S21, D19, S15, S14 M:21 T:26 W moved 6/10 I filed 7/10 D final 4/12 remarried 8/12 W wants to R 12/10 and 4/11 but I decline
No I am solid on that for sure. I enjoy our home and won't let her behavior force me out of my own house, ever.
During mediation it might come up as one of the suggested arrangements while we wait for D to final but I will counter with she can move out otherwise we can continue like we are now until D is final.
ME/XW:47 S21, D19, S15, S14 M:21 T:26 W moved 6/10 I filed 7/10 D final 4/12 remarried 8/12 W wants to R 12/10 and 4/11 but I decline
W has been pretty quiet/brooding the past few days. I was reflecting on some more of the interaction from 4 days ago. She is kind of wacky so I don't put a lot into what she says when she is emotional, but I thought this was interesting. Most of the time I ignore her crap, but I couldn't resist this one the other day (note I have still not told W directly that I called OM's quasi-GF but she knows from OM):
W: the only way you could have known about OM's affair with ZZZZ is if you called the mother of OM's child (quasi-GF). How could you do such a thing?
TDR: Tell OM if he is feeling sorry for himself and looking for someone to blame to look in the mirror and think about what he is doing with the mothers of other people's children.
W: You have no clue what you are talking about. He has nothing to feel bad about. He didn't do anything but be a good friend to me.
She also, on the same day, told me to make a mediation appointment so we can 'find out what our rights are with a separation'. I told her that mediation goal is to come up with a divorce settlement, not a separation agreement and that you file for D early in the mediation process and then work to come to a final agreement.
For whatever reason she never uses the word Divorce. In all of her comments/conversation she always talks about separation. I think she would like to take the next step in her single life, which is have her own house but still stay M on paper so she can remain on my health insurance (she doesn't get any with her job). Her goal all along seems to be to live apart but have me pay her a lot assuming she continues to only work 2 days/week, but also to NOT get a Divorce.
Contacting OM's GF was an untried item on my 'do something different' list and now I can check that off. I am still waiting to observe more potential fallout from that, good or bad. In my situation I figured I don't have much to lose so it can't do damage (!)
ME/XW:47 S21, D19, S15, S14 M:21 T:26 W moved 6/10 I filed 7/10 D final 4/12 remarried 8/12 W wants to R 12/10 and 4/11 but I decline
W is getting wackier and it is turning ugly, but not unlike the other WAW's I have read about on these boards. Contacting quasi-GF was the spark that lit this fire so I am watching it burn. Once they decide that they HAVE to pursue their single life they have a one-track mind. Their greed and selfishness reaches a whole new level!
She found a place she wants to rent. She wants me to pay her so she can go and rent this place. I told her no, that I would only pay her to set up separate household if it was part of a negotiated divorse settlement or via a court order. I told her she can work a couple more days a week and easily cover the rent, so why wouldn't she do that if it is that important to her?
She then went crazy - threatening me to cooperate with her 'or else' she would hire her attorney and I would have to pay half her attorney fees and she would sue me for temp child support, etc. We have had a disagreement about how much I should be liable to pay her - should it be based upon her current work schedule or working full time or close to it? The Ls I consulted with say the latter, but she doesn't agree.
Just a week ago she was saying she wanted to go to a mediator.
I suggested that. I told her lets go to a mediator and come up with a divorce settlement and I will start paying you whatever we agree to as soon as we come up with the agreement while we wait for D to final.
I am not sure what she really wants here, but I think it is to help her rent a place ( I can't afford it anyway ) but no other changes (she still works 2 days/week, no divorce filing, agreements, etc).
Obviously I never wanted a D but was getting to the end or my rope recently, but she continues to drive towards the cliff so I am not getting in the way, but I am not going to be ran over in the process either.
My kids are the innocent victims in all this - she is so selfish and isn't considering the economic and emotional impact on their lives. She is telling me I should 'do the right thing for our kids' and pay her to leave and be able to rent a nice house(!) Isn't that crazy? I told her the best thing for her to do for her kids is step up and work more so SHE can pay for the nicer place for herself. <I quit trying to tell her the best thing for her kids is to work on the M a long time ago>
I just tried to get a consultation with the L I talked to before to understand what my rights are if she leaves and what I am liable for financially but he is booked up until January (darn).
ME/XW:47 S21, D19, S15, S14 M:21 T:26 W moved 6/10 I filed 7/10 D final 4/12 remarried 8/12 W wants to R 12/10 and 4/11 but I decline
I am not sure what she really wants here, but I think it is to help her rent a place ( I can't afford it anyway ) but no other changes (she still works 2 days/week, no divorce filing, agreements, etc).
ALL she wants is you to rollover and give her everything she wants. She wants minimal impact on HER life and to he!! with your life. Thinker had a great snippet about this: W, you are entitled to your happiness, but you are not entitled to mine too. Stay the course.
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My kids are the innocent victims in all this - she is so selfish and isn't considering the economic and emotional impact on their lives. She is telling me I should 'do the right thing for our kids' and pay her to leave and be able to rent a nice house(!)
Isn't is odd how self interested STBXS's and politicians always use the "its for the children" bit to promote their own interests? Hate to tell you, but she isn't interested in putting the childrens' needs in front of her's.
It ended up being an interesting day on Tuesday all around.
First, I got a job offer that blew me away. It is the type of thing I would have been thrilled about any time before the bomb and probably the best thing that has come along for me in about 10 years, but given that I may be a single parent soon I am worried that I won't be able to focus on it like I will need to. My current job is very easy and I can work at home anytime, but doesn't pay as much.
Next, I was actually able to get in to see the L as well after they first said he would be booked. He told me that the only way that I would have to pay W any money if she left and rented anything is if she files for Divorce or Separation, which I suspected. He also told me I should 'finesse' her into leaving and getting to a mediator to file a Separation or Divorce to protect myself. He told me to be nice to her and don't get her riled up so that you can get through mediation.
As far as the specific issues of debate - how much she will be expected to work - he again confirmed that she won't be able to justify continuing to work part time and that her L knows that as well. In addition, he said mediator will also make her face that issue also given that they know how it would end up if it went to court.
Again, this is why he told me to finesse her into moving out and mediation. He said the settlement we end up with will be virtually the same whether we go through mediation or retain Ls - it is just that the latter option will cost us up to $20k most likely. Also, he warned that the typical script here is that the W bails on mediation as soon as they don't get the answers they think they are 'entitled' to, and start listening to divorced friends or an attorney that tells them to go for more (which they will waste money trying to get in my case it seems).
So, after the L discussion I changed my attitude a bit. I told her:
TDR: I agree to pay you if you rent something but we need to get into a mediator - I think they will really help us sort out our issues.
<no response from W>
TDR: The job I was offered will require a lot of my focus and energy and I am worried because kids will need me now more than ever.
She then sent me a series of messages stating things like there isn't much difference if I am gone since she would have the kids when I am gone and that she will be coming and going since she needs to come home to see her pets since she can't have pets in a rental.
I need her to really separate - not continue cake eating by renting her own place and then coming and going as she pleases. This would all get hammered out in mediation I believe as well.
ME/XW:47 S21, D19, S15, S14 M:21 T:26 W moved 6/10 I filed 7/10 D final 4/12 remarried 8/12 W wants to R 12/10 and 4/11 but I decline
I need her to really separate - not continue cake eating by renting her own place and then coming and going as she pleases. This would all get hammered out in mediation I believe as well.
Yes, you do. Which is why this...
Quote:
She then sent me a series of messages stating things like there isn't much difference if I am gone since she would have the kids when I am gone and that she will be coming and going since she needs to come home to see her pets since she can't have pets in a rental.
should NOT be happening. That's not a consequence. Time to lay out a boundary. You can't stop her from D, but, a consequence of HER decision is you guys have seperate households. She will only have access to your's as an invited guest when YOU decide to invite her.
Don't let her ride the fence. Time to pick a side sweetie.
Hate to tell you, but she isn't interested in putting the childrens' needs in front of her's.